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    Alright all you aspiring screenwriters, hopeful authors, and the like ! Uncle Howie has an idea.....Maybe this time it will be a good one !

    Lets take the Mary Kelly murder and put to paper what we think happened on the night of November 9th, 1888.

    However,if anyone has other ideas about other scenarios, go ahead and place 'em ! We all seem to have ideas and "feelings" about certain aspects of the Case. Why not share them.....Seriously...Here's an opportunity to let people who actually give a damn what you say hear what you have to say !
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  • #2
    Mary Jane Kelly took JtR home with her. I tend to think that on the way to her place, JtR was spooked into changing his tactics because a man who knew Mary tried hard to get a look at JtR's face. This man then briefly followed MJK & JtR to Mary's apartment, acting as a sort of spy. I think that JtR knew that the man was following them and that JtR had to wait until the man left before he could strangle and kill MJK. During that time, JtR used the period to get MJK to relax and feel comfortable with him. After the man left, JtR strangled and started to cut up MJK. Trouble was that while JtR was vivisecting MJK she came to, screamed out the word, "Murder!" and was then permanently silenced by JtR. I think one reason why JtR gave up his killing spree was because he was scared to death after MJK came to and yelled like she did. Imagine being in a small room with a woman you're cutting up, you turn your head just before she comes to and then you suddenly hear her scream, "Murder!" I think that this was the reason that JtR mutilated MJK. His attack on her was done in a frenzy or a panic because she had become conscious, yelled out in fear, pain and agony which scared the stuffings, so to speak, out of JtR. Not only would he have been covered in blood but he probably also soiled his pants. So review the killing of MJK and tell me where I'm wrong. Think carefully about what I've posted because you might just be walking into an ambush.......


    • #3
      So like, yeah, he's already killed and butchered a half dozen human beings, and someone yells 'murder' and then he shits his pants?


      • #4
        Dear Instructor...

        One thing that might be kept in mind is the acoustics of the that time of night. Unless he was oblivious to the layout of the court before he entered her flat, I think he would have been cognizant of the acoustical environment before he acted out.

        I used to think that the claim that that specific phrase..."oh murder" was too dramatic. I've been reminded over time that a phrase like that would be common and I've seen the same phrase mentioned in or two of which A.P. has uploaded here,if I am not mistaken.

        But regardless of what was yelled out, the volume of the outcry,if true,had to carry within a layout like Millers Court.

        What do you think,sor?
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        • #5
          Originally posted by A.P. Wolf View Post
          So like, yeah, he's already killed and butchered a half dozen human beings, and someone yells 'murder' and then he shits his pants?
          Aha ! So we don't have a profanity filter. (Fear not; it's not on the list-of-things-to-do...)

          Actually, your comment did set me to thinking. Jack may not have browned his pants BUT perhaps Kelly's resistance/vocalising is what set off the overkill. The other victims pretty much died without a peep, it appears......


          • #6
            Originally posted by Instructor 173 View Post
            I think that JtR knew that the man was following them
            Reasonable to postulate......

            and that JtR had to wait until the man left before he could strangle and kill MJK.
            ...but how does Jack know GH has left ?


            • #7
              Mary Kelly services Hutchinson's man who then walks off into the night. Mary falls asleep. A wandering loony opens her door to get out of the rain. The door knocks against the table, waking Kelly up. To silence her, the loony kills her. As he's also JTR, he mutilates her too.

              I think that if Jack had gone back to the room with Mary, he'd have killed her using his normal method of strangulation/throat-cutting as soon as the door was closed. She'd have been lying the other way round on the bed, so that he could cut her throat from her left side to her right side while he was on her right side. There would have been no cry, no defensive wounds, and no holes in the sheet.



              • #8
                Hey all,

                Well I'm one who does believe that Hutchinson's testimony was the truth, and the man that he saw with Mary was JTR.
                So, IMO, this is the most likely scenario:

                After Mary and her 'client' entered Miller's Court, Hutchinson waits. JTR is aware that Hutchinson followed them, and asks Mary who he is - upon learning that she knew him, JTR knows there's a good chance he may stick around or even try and come into Mary's place, so he kills time until he thinks it's safe to commit the murder. Mary lays on her bed, prepared to service her 'client', when she sees that Jack has pulled a knife out of his coat. Instinctively, she screams loudly (I don't believe that she screamed "Murder!", it was more likely to have just been a scream) before JTR muffles her and begins his gruesome work.
                By the time this happens and JTR leaves Miller's Court, Hutchinson is long gone and there is nobody around.

                As to why Mary's murder was particularly brutal when compared to the others, with the exception of Liz Stride (which was an interrupted murder, IMO) each murder had become progressively more brutal. By the time more than a month had passed since the double event, and then JTR's plans were hindered once again by Hutchinson, he unleashed all of his fury on poor Mary. After that, he had no need to kill anymore - there's not much more he could do to another victim after what he did to Mary.



                • #9
                  Howard, one of the things that we know is from the testimony of the 3 women who lived above Kelly's apartment. The women, a Mrs. Kennedy, Sarah Lewis and Elizabeth Prater, testified that around 4:00 a.m. that they heard somebody cry out with the word, "Murder." That is reported on page 218, 2nd paragraph from the top in the book, "The Jack the Ripper A-Z." Having hunted bad, bad guys at night I understand how deceptive sound can be. I tend to believe that IF MJK did yell out the word murder that would explain why nobody could exactly determine from where the cry originated or why they were confused about it.

                  I also like the idea Adam has posted about her screaming out the word murder upon seeing JtR pullling out a knife or approaching her with the drawn knife. That is a good one too.

                  As to Sir Robert Anderson's question about how did JtR know that George Hutchinson had left... All JtR had to do was pretend that he needed to go to the bathroom, which in those days was just about ALWAYS outside, look around for Hutchinson a little bit and then do his deed when he was satisfied that Hutchinson was gone.

                  As to A.P. Wolf's comment... Yes, felons of different sorts and even excited police officers HAVE been scared half crazy by sudden events, sounds or people running at them. It was Wild Bill Hickok on Oct.5, 1871, who accidentally shot and killed Special Deputy Mike Williams. Hickok was a marshal in Abilene, Kansas, on that date when he got into a gunfight. Williams came running up from behind Hickok to render aid to Wild Bill. In the confusion, Wild Bill put a bullet through the chest of Williams. So, if an experienced lawman like Wild Bill can make a fatal mistake, from being suddenly frightened, JtR could also have it happen to him too.


                  • #10
                    Bump up

                    "It is far more comfortable to point a finger and declare someone a devil, than to call upon your imagination to try to understand their world."