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Carrie Brown/Ameer Ben Ali Discussion Thread Including The Trial & Aftermath

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  • Michael Banks
    replied
    Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
    April 28, 29, and 30 editions :
    Is it possible or likely that so many of the Press misheard or misunderstood what Byrnes had said about his interest in Frenchy 2 as a suspect? He seemed very keen to distance himself from the suggestion which is strange as the first suspect must have been the occupant of room 31 who they initially suspected might have been Frenchy 2. The Press certainly weren’t acknowledging any error as they repeated the claim about Byrnes interest in Frenchy 2 the next day. New Jersey Police arrested La Bruckman so it’s obvious that there’s been no order from Byrnes that Frenchy 2 was no longer on his radar. Other men had also been arrested as possible ‘Frenchy’s.’

    After Byrnes and McLaughlin had interviewed Ali on the evening after the murder they were only taking about him in terms of his cousin, Frenchy 2. So does this mean that there was no obvious bloodstaining on him? Were they just some stains that turned out to have been blood?

    I get the impression that Byrnes ego was at play and that he just didn’t want to admit that he’d initially suspected Kniclo/Frenchy 2. Perhaps haunted by his earlier Jack the Ripper comments?

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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    NY Evening World
    April 24, 1891
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    Attached Files

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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    May 1, 13, & 14,.and July 5th editions
    Attached Files

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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    April 28, 29, and 30 editions :
    Attached Files

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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Many people are probably unaware that in 1890, Brooklyn was a separate city within the conterminous New York City area. Like the borough of Queens, it would be added to Manhattan on January 1, 1898. Today, many probably think Manhattan is the most populous borough in New York City. It isn't. Brooklyn has the largest population followed by Queens, the largest by area, and then Manhattan.

    Brooklyn was the 4th largest city in America in 1890....larger than Boston and San Francisco combined.

    While the Brown murder made the front page of Manhattan papers ( Tribune, Sun, Evening World, Press, Herald, etc..), articles concerning the murder and June/July trial of Ali were relegated to the back page in this Brooklyn paper, the Daily Eagle.

    Here are the April 24, 25, 26, and 27, 1891 editions of the Brooklyn Daily Eagle :
    Attached Files

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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    NY Evening World
    Monday
    July 10, 1891
    **************
    Attached Files

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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    NY Evening World
    Monday
    July 7, 1891
    **************
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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    NY Evening World
    Monday
    July 6, 1891
    **************
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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    NY Evening World
    July 4, 1891
    ***************
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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    NY Evening World
    July 3, 1891
    ***************
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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    NY Evening World
    July 2, 1891
    **************
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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    NY Evening World
    July 1, 1891
    ***************
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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    NY Evening World
    June 30, 1891
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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    I’m not looking forward to looking through the trial transcript to be honest How as it’s so difficult to read. I’m leaving that for a week or so as I’m waiting for new glasses. Magnifying glass on standby. We could do with someone transcribing it but it would be a big project for one person (to put it mildly) The result would be a massive bonus though.
    -Mike Banks-


    It'd be a bonus indeed if it was transcribed. You might consider getting a Hubble telescope instead of a magnifying glass. Fortunately, a lot of the testimony from the witnesses is easy to read, for the most part, but that damned 4th volume is a doozy. I had to stop for several minutes on numerous occasions after going through the 4th volume and not look at anything other than my surroundings. Nina won't even think about that volume...too much on the eyes and gives you a headache.

    Prof. Bob has the patience of Job to have accumulated as much as he did from the 4th volume.

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  • Michael Banks
    replied
    Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
    Exactly How. Even when I’m reading a book I tend to skip over the medical stuff because my brain simply starts switching off. I have to force myself to read it and take it in the best I can as a layman. It would have been much harder for men in 1891.

    I'm betting they never saw an episode of CSI. The medical evidence would have been little more than which scientist sounded the most authoritative and who did the better job: defence or prosecution. But present a jury with evidence that the man who shared a room with Brown appeared soon after at a nearby hotel with blood on him and bingo. I can’t see this other than a big mistake.

    -Mike Banks-

    This happens to be the only murder case that I ever felt I had to pay as much attention to medical evidence as I have , Mike.
    Even when reading the trial transcript, I had to force myself to plow through the medical evidence. It didn't help that a lot of the text is virtually indecipherable and to be frank, was a real pain in the ass and on the eyes as well.
    We both know more about criminal cases and crimes in general than the 12 jurists did and if it is a labor of love for us to trudge through it, you know it was a rough going for those gents.

    Regarding what you said about :

    The medical evidence would have been little more than which scientist sounded the most authoritative and who did the better job: defence or prosecution

    There's the rub. The defense medical experts accepted the findings of Flint & Formad with no objections to their conclusions. This act, alone, made things easier for the jury in one crucial respect. Who were they, the jurists, to dismiss the prosecution's findings if the defense team's medical experts accepted it ?!


    I’m not looking forward to looking through the trial transcript to be honest How as it’s so difficult to read. I’m leaving that for a week or so as I’m waiting for new glasses. Magnifying glass on standby. We could do with someone transcribing it but it would be a big project for one person (to put it mildly) The result would be a massive bonus though.

    Leave a comment:

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