Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Damon Key - Discovered By Luke Jerod Kummer

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Might his description not have matched the one from the Kelly/Miniter and so they left it out?
    -Mike Banks-

    At that point in time, 1901, when Damon came forward, the only thing that would have mattered was something concrete to prove Ali's innocence.

    It was, at least, the fourth known pardon effort and the possibility that the description provided by Miniter and Kelly, if Kelly's was even mentioned for comparative purposes wouldn't have persuaded Gov. Odell at all. At least, I don't think it would.
    To Join JTR Forums :
    Contact [email protected]

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
      Mike:

      I'd have to go back through the 1901 articles ( NY Sun from June 2nd comes to mind), but I'm pretty sure that he didn't describe the farmhand's features at any time...only that he ( Damon ) had fear of the man. Damon said just enough to the press to paint himself as a victim ( fear of the farmhand, fear of his reputation being stained, taking someone else's advice not to come forward).

      Damon kept him on at the farm after completing his original tasks. Damon was satisfied with 'Frank's' work grading the land, so he hired him on for further work.
      Damon stated, as one of his four 'reasons' for not coming forward, that he feared the farmhand for what might happen had Damon rolled over on him to the police.

      That's understandable. I think all of us have at one time or another been in a situation that if we had crossed someone in our social circle or from outside of it, we would naturally
      be wary of said person.

      But it doesn't explain why or how Damon didn't know the farmhand's surname. I don't buy it

      If, and I've mentioned this before, you were someone who worked 20 some miles away and had women ( wife and female servants) on your estate, you'd naturally want & need to know the man's
      surname.....considering you had valuable merch in your home, as well. I certainly would in case the worst case scenario popped up.
      It’s a tough ask to believe that he wouldn’t have known the guys name for the reasons that you’ve stated although he might perhaps have thought that the guy might easily have given him a false name so it was a case of not bothering to ask. I don’t know. Wasn’t it the case that neither he nor his wife could recall the name of the servant that found the key?
      Regards

      Michael🔎


      " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

      Comment


      • #18
        Mike:

        Old lady Damon was never approached, as far as can be told.
        She was put into a sanitarium a couple of years after the disclosure of the key ( 1901). Off the top of my head, I can't remember the year. She may have had a physical, rather than psychological complaint. It was in north New Jersey ( Fairfield or Planfield).

        Damon couldn't come up with a name for the servant ( ones can be found....Nina found one or two....but they may be different ones, so any names she found might be someone completely different). or the farmhand's surname.
        To Join JTR Forums :
        Contact [email protected]

        Comment


        • #19
          Augmenting this thread with Luke's great finds....a photo of George Damon I discovered today ( March 6, 2022 )

          To Join JTR Forums :
          Contact [email protected]

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
            Augmenting this thread with Luke's great finds....a photo of George Damon I discovered today ( March 6, 2022 )

            Great find How

            Regards

            Michael🔎


            " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

            Comment


            • #21
              Thanks Mike....The multi-year search is over and I'm damned glad. I thought about this day for years now....even before I became as interested in the Case as I am today.

              Gonna drink a few beers today.
              To Join JTR Forums :
              Contact [email protected]

              Comment


              • #22
                A well deserved beer How. All that you need to do now is to find a picture of the original ERH.
                Regards

                Michael🔎


                " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

                Comment


                • #23
                  Will the photo of John R. Lee do ?

                  Nina wasn't about to be outdone...so she went out and found it.

                  Look on the new thread I'm posting now.....

                  https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-...lee-with-photo
                  To Join JTR Forums :
                  Contact [email protected]

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    A couple of thoughts on the key, Damon, & suspect guilt and innocence.



                    A. In 1891, George Damon's lack of civic responsibility was in reality an inconsequential act.
                    That's because Ali really was guilty and the leukemic cells under his nails was the proof he murdered Carrie Brown.
                    In 1901, George Damon, originally 'advised' by John R. Lee not to come forward, does come forward with the key.
                    In doing so, the New York Governor accepted this, along with influence from the French Consulate and 8 uncontested
                    affidavits, and releases a guilty man who returns to Europe and from there Algeria.
                    Therefore, a morally irresponsible man is coerced into doing the right thing which turns out was the unintentionally wrong thing all along.
                    Damon's reticence lasted 10 years. Had he come forward before the Coroner's Inquest on May 13-14, 1891, there may not have
                    been an examination of the material under Ali's nails as Drs. Formad and Flint only became involved two months after the murder and 4
                    days before the trial on June 26, 1891.



                    B. In 1891, George Damon's lack of civic responsibility was an act of monumental injustice.
                    That's because Ali was innocent and the leukemic cells under his nails was proof of him burglarizing Room 31 and nothing more.
                    He is said to have admitted as much but not in a courtroom but to an interpreter named Emile Sultan, cigar store proprietor in Manhattan.
                    In 1891, George Damon comes forward and provides authorities in New York with the key.
                    In doing so, his actions are part of a package that eventually finds Ali released but not exonerated. The guilty man is never found.
                    To Join JTR Forums :
                    Contact [email protected]

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      It wouldn’t be too difficult to guess which one I’d go for How.
                      Regards

                      Michael🔎


                      " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Mike:

                        Here's a set of scenarios:

                        1. If Ali had considered confessing to the NYPD early on that he had been in the room, & had only burgled the room and that that was how he had got the material under his nails and blood on other areas of his person.....he probably would have not been believed.

                        2. If C.Kniclo/ Glenmore Man/ Danish Farmhand had gone to the NYPD or had been picked up by the NYPD and told them that he had stepped out of the room for a few minutes and upon returning found Brown dead. That he got the few splotches of blood on his person from taking one or more of his personal items in the room and then left, honest Injun.....the police probably wouldn't buy that story either.

                        3. If Damon had had a momentary flash of doing the right thing after the verdict on July 3rd, I believe his ass would have been grass. He, I believe, would have been right to worry about reputation at that point in time. He, like Ali and C.Kniclo, would have trouble selling their stories.

                        ******************************
                        To Join JTR Forums :
                        Contact [email protected]

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Three men with understandable possible reasons for lying. We know that Ali’s reputation would have gone against him too and although we don’t know anything about CK/GM/DF’s reputation the situation itself was enough of a reason for him to keep schtum and get as far away as possible. The risk for Damon was less serious but given a choice between his own reputation and a man rotting in prison I can’t see him losing too much sleep over Ali.

                          None of Damon’s excuses stack up though. If Damon knew that Ali was innocent then how was Ali’s reputation was bad enough to justify Damon believing that society would be safer with him in prison? How could Damon claim to have been scared of the Farmhand when he held the key and bloodied shirt which would have had him locked away for the rest of his life? (Pity they didn’t hold on to the shirt too btw) And why would handing the key in straight away have damaged his reputation? He’d have been the public spirited citizen getting a deranged murderer off the streets.

                          Our Mr Damon obviously wasn’t cursed with a conscience. Likewise Lee if it took some argument at a party for him to spill the beans. Nice, upstanding citizens.
                          Regards

                          Michael🔎


                          " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            An Innocent CK/GM/DF ?

                            If a man had simply come into contact with a bloodied body and had no place to clean up in his room, which was the case at the East River Hotel,
                            he'd not be out of line to want to get the blood off of himself just as someone who was the cause (a murderer, for example) of the blood being on his person
                            in the first place would want or need to do.

                            If CK/GM/DF had only come into contact with the amount of blood he was stated to have on his person by Kelly at the Glenmore
                            and from what I can ascertain from reports, he did not avoid eye contact and didn't hesitate to ask whether he could use their washroom facilities after
                            being denied a free room, a silly request in the first place guaranteed to make Kelly remember him, This might mean that CK/GM/DF
                            wasn't necessarily worried if anyone saw him with blood on his person and that he might have been innocent.

                            . If CK/GM/DF had killed Brown, would he go to a place and do the things he did mentioned above without any concerns ?
                            How could he know whether people other than Kelly saw him or would see him, such as a policeman on patrol ?
                            No one knew about the murder which was in Glenmore Man's favor, for sure, but it was, nevertheless, a risk for a guilty CK/GM/DF to allow
                            himself to be seen with blood on his person.

                            I can only speak for myself....but if someone approached me with blood in a few spots on themselves ( factor in the stupid request for a free room),
                            I would take notice if the blood was from him or that the source was from someone else. When someone gets cut, blood looks different on
                            them than blood coming from another source. They look differently. Just my two cents. I've had the experience of being close to bloodied people, some
                            with blood from someone else and some with their own blood on them. Kelly did not say GM was bleeding, only that he had blood on him...a possible
                            sign that Kelly noticed this difference.

                            An Innocent Ali ?

                            If Ali had killed Brown, why does he loiter around the East End, getting picked up as he leaned against a building on Water Street a couple hundred yards
                            or less from the hotel ? Why, since he had friends in Brooklyn, didn't he go to Brooklyn ? A simple walk across the Brooklyn Bridge would have accomplished
                            that. It wasn't as if he didn't have other options.

                            Is it because Ali was a risk taker or perhaps because he was innocent ?
                            To Join JTR Forums :
                            Contact [email protected]

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              The only point that I’d suggest in addition to the section on CK/GM/DF would be that he might have been in some kind of daze/mental collapse after the murder? Perhaps he wasn’t the brightest spark in the first place? I remember Farson suggesting that Druitt’s mind might have given way after the awful carnage in Miller’s Court so maybe what happened in Room 31 pushed this guy over the edge so that he just wasn’t thinking straight? After all why would anyone believe that there were free rooms going at The Glenmore? He could have been some harmless guy with old blood on him of course who had no reason to feel under threat but we have to throw the Miniter description into the mix of course.

                              Your point about Ali has always been the one that jars for me. Ok he was no Professor Moriarty but he surely wasn’t such a complete moron that after butchering a woman he’d be found a few hours later 200 yards from the scene of the crime? I think it’s still worth asking though why even an innocent Ali would still have been around? I can only assume that he assumed that the police would have been solely focused on Brown’s room mate, especially if he didn’t think that he’d left any blood evidence at the ERH? I do wonder though why he wasn’t concerned that the police might have asked about other guests to be told that Frenchy had stayed in Room 33? He’d have know that he’d got blood on his hands a clothes but he apparently made no effort to cut and clean his nails.
                              Regards

                              Michael🔎


                              " When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable......is probably a little bit boring "

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Maybe what happened in Room 31 pushed this guy over the edge so that he just wasn’t thinking straight...
                                -Mike Banks-

                                Good point, Mike.
                                The request for a free room ( assuming that Kelly was telling the honest to God's truth here) seems like a desperate request. Had he merely asked for a place
                                to wash up, that would seem more rational. But after being told that rooms weren't available on the cuff, he makes a beeline towards the wash room or toilet and had
                                to be steered away by Kelly. Then he left. He had money as the story he told Kelly was obviously false since he certainly couldn't ride the west bound ferry or the Central Jersey Railroad all the way to Union Ave. Cranford ( photo of train arriving in Cranford) for free.

                                Ali probably shit a brick when he saw Lopez ( bitten and tackled by Ali on the fifth floor) around the time Lang arrested him. Yeah, Mike...it is strange if he was guilty OR innocent to hang around the vicinity after the murder. He had hours to make a decision but didn't. The first thing he should have done, whether it was just burgle the room or commit the murder, was wash those hands !!!

                                To Join JTR Forums :
                                Contact [email protected]

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X