Locked Hotel Mystery?

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

The Carrie Brown Murder Mystery is turning into a legitimate, non-fiction Locked Room Mystery. I can hardly believe it but recent findings make it almost official. Edgar Allen Poe couldn’t have thought it up.

If that isn’t enough, could it also be a Locked Hotel Mystery? That’s what it appears to be, according to Prof. G Robert Underwood, at least after 1 am.

Does it affect the various suspect theories of the killer’s escape or exit from the building?

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[Howard Brown]

Mark:

I forget where exactly at the moment, but either in the Coroner Report or Trial Transcript, Sam Shine said a few ( 4, if I recall correctly) men left the hotel while he was on duty. I'll see if I can locate the reference tonight unless you or Mike & Pete get to it first.

Of course, it was also said that only couples could go up to the fifth floor....but we know that's bullshit.

Thanks for cranking this up.

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

“The police ascertained that there were only two doors from which guests could exit the hotel - one by going through the barroom that was closed at one o’clock in the morning. No one was permitted to leave through that door after one o’clock. Furthermore no one could leave through the other door leading onto Water Street unless Eddie Fitzgerald or some other employee unlocked the door for them. There was a buzzer device connected to this door so that entry and exit could be controlled.”

Gaslight Lawyers, Underwood p. 42

[Howard Brown]

There was a buzzer device connected to this door so that entry and exit could be controlled.”

If the buzzer's location was too far away from the door knob, then there might be an issue with opening the door and leaving the hotel in one motion.
However, the buzzer was not at a distance. If C. Kniclo and Brown entered through that door ( Water Street side ), there's better than average odds that C. Kniclo saw and remembered how guests were let in....IF this was the way he went out and not through the Catherine Slip side door ( doubtful).
Mary Miniter testified that she let Brown and C. Kniclo in the Hotel on the 23rd via the Water Street side when Brown pressed the bell.

[Howard Brown]

I added 6 pages of Shine's testimony at the Coroner Inquest regarding the buzzer and door

This is Fred House questioning Sam Shine ,May 14th ( Day 2), 1891

As we see, the means of exiting may have been less difficult if the door wasn't locked on the morning in question.
Likewise, as suggested, it wouldn't have been difficult for a guest to exit if they pressed the buzzer from the inside.

[Howard Brown]

Mary Miniter being questioned on May 14 ( Day 2, Coroner Inquest) by Fred House. The entrance under discussion is the same door Shine was asked about.

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

So the door to and from upstairs was right next to the entry/exit from Water St?

And what about the timing of the mutilation-murder-and-escape theory before or around 1am and the locking of the door to the bar at 1am? It suggests some conscious or subconscious thought and prior knowledge of the procedures.

[Howard Brown]

Mark:

Personally, I don't read that much into the timing....although it is an idea worth keeping in mind ( IMHO )

Guests to the Five Floors of Funk entered somewhere near the arrows

I also sent an email to Prof. Bob about the knobs, buzzers, bells, locks, and doors.

Hardware How

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

Doesn’t it look like Underwood and Dekle dealt with the case in their different ways based mainly on their understanding of the knobs and the locks?

Underwood definitely dismissed Damon’s story completely.

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

As for the timing of the lockup, that and the blood on the trap door to the roof might have led to the theorizing and sketches of C Kniclo descending to the fire escape landing by rope. Although, no fire escape was shown in the sketch you posted. So they showed him “pullying” himself down.

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-...mmy-door-knobs

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

Poe’s Orangutang has nothing on C Kniclo!

[Howard Brown]

As for the timing of the lockup, that and the blood on the trap door to the roof might have led to the theorizing and sketches of C Kniclo going descending to the fire escape landing by rope. Although, no fire escape was shown in the sketch you posted. So they showed him “pullying” himself down.

If a rope had been present anywhere on the building, we'd know about it. The fact is that there wasn't one, Mark. The sketch on the dime novel is simply the author taking the blood on the scuttle ( Can't even remember if this was proven or not, at the moment ) and running with it for a sensational story.

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

The sketch shows him rappelling himself so he could retrieve the rope and rappel with it again. Grant it though that he walked out the front door, likely before the interior door next to the exit and leading from the stairs was locked at one o’clock.

Ali had the locked hotel, as well as a locked room, conceivably, to contend with if he was guilty of anything. How is it then he’d spend up to 3 hours deciding, Hey I can just go downstairs and asked to be let out!?

This puts the story in an interesting light that would seem formulaic and even apish on my part if it wasn’t “unofficially” real.

[Howard Brown]

Grant it though that he walked out the front door, likely before the interior door next to the exit and leading from the stairs was locked at one o’clock.

Not to nitpick, buddy, but it might have even been later...as in closer to 1:30 to 2 AM. If the Glenmore Hotel timing ( 2 AM or so) was correct....and C. Kniclo was Glenmore Man....it wouldn't have taken C. Kniclo the better portion of an hour or even a half hour to get there and make himself noticed.
Miniter and Shine both mention ( posts 5 and 6 above) that the door was not necessarily always locked....

[Howard Brown]

Doesn’t it look like Underwood and Dekle dealt with the case in their different ways based mainly on their understanding of the knobs and the locks?

Underwood definitely dismissed Damon’s story completely.

Let's not forget Underwood states that James Jennings, the hotel proprietor, states ( where, I don't know) said the key may not have been one used at that time.

I have to admit I was a little startled to hear Luke Kummer in his most recent podcast question the Damon story in regard to whether there was a Danish Farmhand in the first place. That makes five people ( Nina, Bob Dekle., Underwood to an extent, me, and now Luke) with issues about Damon in one way or another. You, Pete, and Mike might have concerns about the story as well.
I'd give an arm or leg to know what Damon's contemporaries thought about all of this.

It also shows the non-peer reviewed articles and stories from 100 some odd years ago simply glossed over Damon's entrance into the history of this Case....since none of them even attempted to question the fabric of his story.