Why would Kate solicit?

[Gary Barnett]

I've never seen a contemporary reference to it. Colin Roberts was the man to ask about that. He tried very hard to convince people it was a myth about 15 years ago.

Yes, it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Do you have any idea where Colin may have come across the idea? It’s in the Bugle, but presumably it found its way into a Ripperology article or book.

[Debra Arif]

Yes, it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Do you have any idea where Colin may have come across the idea? It’s in the Bugle, but presumably it found its way into a Ripperology article or book.

People were always banging on about it on the message boards from what I recall and Colin believed strongly it was a myth.

[Mark J D]

Since Eddowes had food in her stomach, is there a possibility she had headed to where she knew something to eat could be obtained very cheaply, or even for free (I'm thinking of restaurant dustbins there)...?

M.

[Howard Brown]

Something I’ve never got to the bottom of is whether St Botolph’s really was the ‘prostitutes’ church’ and they had some kind of immunity from arrest in its vicinity.
-Gary Barnett-
I think that idea came from Rumbelow or another well known Ripperologist with a police background. Or is there a contemporary reference to it that I’ve missed?
I've never seen a contemporary reference to it. Colin Roberts was the man to ask about that. He tried very hard to convince people it was a myth about 15 years ago.
-Debs Arif-

It's very unlikely that Donald Rumbelow fabricated that story. He'd probably heard the 'handed-down' story from someone within the police department, maybe even when he was
writing his first Ripper book. Colin might have considered contacting Don to nail down the source, but I don't believe he ever did.
Of course, a contemporary reference would go a long way in determining whether it was known to the locals and/or police by that name, but many times places known to locals by one name
are never 'legitimized' by being described as such in newspapers or other publications.
In NW Philly, there's a ball field known to everyone and his brother as Dago Louie's.....but on maps, it's listed as Pachella Fields.

Just a thought.

[Debra Arif]

Do we really need to try and prove St Botolph's was a prostitutes church to show Catherine Eddowes may have been a casual prostitute? Wouldn't Henry Smith have just mentioned it if it was and she was headed that way?

[Debra Arif]

Where was her sister Emma Jones living at that time?

[Howard Brown]

Debs:

If you're asking me, the answer is no.
To me, there's no doubt she went to Mitre Square intending to solicit.

[Scott Nelson]

I think that idea came from Rumbelow or another well known Ripperologist with a police background. Or is there a contemporary reference to it that I’ve missed?
I've never seen a contemporary reference to it. Colin Roberts was the man to ask about that. He tried very hard to convince people it was a myth about 15 years ago.
-Debs Arif-

It's very unlikely that Donald Rumbelow fabricated that story. He'd probably heard the 'handed-down' story from someone within the police department, maybe even when he was
writing his first Ripper book. Colin might have considered contacting Don to nail down the source, but I don't believe he ever did.

Colin Roberts got the St. Botolphs/Prostitutes Church reference from something I had written. He vehemently opposed the idea and asked for solid back-up, which I couldn't provide. Still can't.

[Gary Barnett]

Do we really need to try and prove St Botolph's was a prostitutes church to show Catherine Eddowes may have been a casual prostitute? Wouldn't Henry Smith have just mentioned it if it was and she was headed that way?

No, but if that part of Aldgate was particularly attractive to prostitutes it provides a possible motive for heading in that direction. That’s why the ‘prostitutes church’ idea had been mentioned so frequently in accounts of Kate’s murder.

This could be yet another relatively modern invention.

[Gary Barnett]

Colin Roberts got the St. Botolphs/Prostitutes Church reference from something I had written. He vehemently opposed the idea and asked for solid back-up, which I couldn't provide. Still can't.

But where did you get it from, Scott?

[Debra Arif]

No, but if that part of Aldgate was particularly attractive to prostitutes it provides a possible motive for heading in that direction. That’s why the ‘prostitutes church’ idea had been mentioned so frequently in accounts of Kate’s murder.

This could be yet another relatively modern invention.

Then all Henry Smith had to do was mention the 'prostitute's church' to Kelly to convince him?

[Gary Barnett]

Then all Henry Smith had to do was mention the 'prostitute's church' to Kelly to convince him?

I don’t follow, Debs. I’m trying to find out whether the area Kate headed to was such a hotbed of prostitution that it’s church was known as the ‘prostitutes’ church’. You see it repeated over and over by 20th/21st century writers.

I think it was Arthur Harding who described punters from up west arriving in cabs to pick up women in Aldgate.

[Debra Arif]

I don’t follow, Debs. I’m trying to find out whether the area Kate headed to was such a hotbed of prostitution that it’s church was known as the ‘prostitutes’ church’. You see it repeated over and over by 20th/21st century writers.

I think it was Arthur Harding who described punters from up west arriving in cabs to pick up women in Aldgate.

I was trying to say that Henry Smith in an article 'More about the streets of London' in 1906 in Blackwood's, claims he tried to persuade John Kelly that there was a purpose in Catherine Eddowes going to Aldgate and Mitre Square, against Kelly saying Catherine would do 'no wrong.' Surely if there was a tradition of St Botolph being the prostitutes church it would have been mentioned on more than one occasion and was the only thing Smith needed to say to convince Kelly?
I've probably been around far too long. Scott once referred to me as Debra Arif and 'her like'..and that was more than 15 years ago..

[Mark J D]

... I’m trying to find out whether the area Kate headed to was such a hotbed of prostitution that it’s church was known as the ‘prostitutes’ church’. You see it repeated over and over by 20th/21st century writers...

I doubt very much that I know something about this that others don't; but I do seem to have been brought up knowing that the point about St B's was that a woman could keep walking around and around it, and therefore not be required to do the kind of stationary loitering that the police took as soliciting.

I know I didn't make that up; so, to me, the question is whether someone else did...

Does that help, at all...?

M.

[Dusty Miller]

According to Findagrave, https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/...ate-churchyard

"It was often referred to as the "Church of Prostitutes" in the late Victorian period for a very strange reason. The church is situated on an island of land surrounded by roadways. It was common in Victorian times to be suspicious of women stood on street corners and so this made them easy targets for the police."

And the Londonist claims, https://londonist.com/london/history...amed-after-him

"Its full name is St Botolph without Aldgate and Holy Trinity Minories, but it was otherwise previously known as the ‘Church of Prostitutes’ a century or so ago as ladies of the night would stroll around the island on which the church sits in a bid to evade plod on the prowl."

On the plus side, neither is a ripper site. On the minus side, neither give their source for the claim.

Has anybody contacted the church?