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Swanson's notes on Stride's murder

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  • Swanson's notes on Stride's murder

    Hamrammr has started a thread on Casebook about a note made by Swanson on the murder of Stride, which is particularly difficult to decipher. It's an interesting puzzle, and I think Jon S's approach is the right one to follow. I wonder if anyone here has any more thoughts on it:
    http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=9457

  • #2
    Chris:

    Thanks for sharing.
    FWIW, I think you're right about Jon's approach towards making sense out of the note.

    Is that found within a Home File, Chris ?
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
      Thanks for sharing.
      FWIW, I think you're right about Jon's approach towards making sense out of the note.

      Is that found within a Home File, Chris ?
      It's written in the margin of the Home Office copy of Swanson's report about the Stride murder and, following the first link in the thread, it's written beside the description of the man seen near Mitre Square by Lawende and Co at 1.35 (p. 138 of the Ultimate Sourcebook). So it's a comment on what Swanson says about that sighting of a suspect.

      I see Hamrammr is going to try to post a higher resolution image and his thoughts on the transcription on the other thread.

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      • #4
        Thanks Chris.
        To Join JTR Forums :
        Contact Howard@jtrforums.com

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        • #5
          I clipped it and enhanced it, The laptop I use for that purpose isn't working right so I didn't get as much as I think I could. Here is what I think is in the first sentence. Maybe it will help someone else figure out more.

          "That has led to ______ been
          at 1.35 by that ______ time
          the _______ had _______
          murder!"

          I feel fairly sure of the "murder!".
          The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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          • #6
            "Murder" isn't "made clear", by any chance?
            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

            "Suche Nullen"
            (F. Nietzsche)

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            • #7
              Sam: Reasonably everything is suspect. I see murder! but I won't insist on it.

              Using the tools available on Photobucket I suggest the second line may say:

              "If (take?) the 1.35 as correct the
              ___ed ______ ______ that have
              ____ _____ ______ between."

              Someone who is good with computers and photo enhancing: If this thing is enlarged and various levels of contrast, brightness, etc. can be worked with and maybe some special effects used, I think this would be fairly clear. I also think the longer words (like perhaps constable?) are kind of scribbled in the first place. With some applications most of it looks almost clear to me but I can't do the final steps needed. It appears the scribbling over the text is a different density than the writing and I think this can be largely discarded with the right enhancements.
              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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              • #8
                I see 1.35 mentioned twice

                This is said to have been
                at 1.35: by that time
                the
                murdered.
                If ----------- 1.35 is correct

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                  I see 1.35 mentioned twice

                  This is said to have been
                  at 1.35: by that time
                  the
                  murdered.
                  If ----------- 1.35 is correct
                  Yes, I agree with this, and I think the people on Casebook have worked out that the third line is "the woman had been [...]ly".

                  It seems that the Home Office official had failed to understand that these witnesses related to Eddowes's murder rather than Stride's, and had therefore thought there was a problem with the timing. I assume the annotation was crossed out when he realised his error.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CGP View Post
                    Yes, I agree with this, and I think the people on Casebook have worked out that the third line is "the woman had been [...]ly".
                    I wonder if the last word on that line could be "certainly", if one of the lines that looks like part of a double 't' (or 'f') is really part of the crossing out.

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                    • #11
                      Do we know what is written further down the page, under the scribbled section? It's just that on the other scans that have been posted of the description given of the the man seen at Mitre Square I can see the word 'murdered' written further down the page with the scribbles...I think.

                      As an aside-could this be where Macnaghten got the idea that a City PC had seen Eddowes killer? Reading the description page again it mentions the City police (relating to Eddowes) and talks of comparisons Schwartz and the PC's descriptions. Could someone doing a quick once over some time later have picked that up as meaning a City PC? Just a thought.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CGP View Post
                        I wonder if the last word on that line could be "certainly", if one of the lines that looks like part of a double 't' (or 'f') is really part of the crossing out.
                        Or could it be an echoed 'horribly', following the main text in the descriptions write up opposite?

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                        • #13
                          In the first sentence, third line I almost think the word "constable" could be there. As in "the constable". It's better than a guess but not by much. I almost think the gist is about someone (constable) crying out murder, but not in exactly those words.
                          The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                          • #14
                            Taking advantage of the fact that most of the work has been done by other people, on Casebook and here, at the moment my "best guess" for the whole text is:

                            This is said to have been
                            at 1.35 : by that time
                            the woman had been certainly?
                            murdered.

                            If this? time?? 1.35 is correct the
                            woman?? seen?? could? not? have
                            [been??] the? murdered? woman?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CGP View Post
                              Taking advantage of the fact that most of the work has been done by other people, on Casebook and here, at the moment my "best guess" for the whole text is:

                              This is said to have been
                              at 1.35 : by that time
                              the woman had been certainly?
                              murdered.

                              If this? time?? 1.35 is correct the
                              woman?? seen?? could? not? have
                              [been??] the? murdered? woman?
                              I must admit I was stumped by the second half until Pat made a suggestion on Casebook about it. I think the sense of that must be right, though I think the wording is a bit different. A possible alternative sense might be that the witnesses "could not have seen the murdered woman".

                              Anyhow, I think the official who wrote this comment must have crossed it out after he realised that there were two murdered women - Stride who was murdered before 1.35 and Eddowes who was believed to have been seen at 1.35.

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