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When The Killer Left Berner Street

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  • When The Killer Left Berner Street

    How many people here believe...honestly believe... that the killer of Stride stayed inside Dutfield's Yard behind a gate or deeper into the yard itself, when the approaching cart and tradesman were first noticed by the killer ?

    Lets not take it for granted that thekiller knew how many people were in the Diemshutz entourage. If he reacted solely to the sound of the horse & cart and went into the yard without seeing how many individuals were approaching, then thats suicidal or lucky at best.

    IMHO, our boy bolted before L.D. and Man O' War approached. I think the killer reassessed the risks at Berner Street with all the caterwauling and socialist socializing going on was a little too close for comfort at the last second..

    How about you?
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  • #2
    Howard,

    Could we have one of those polls inserted here? It would be interesting to see the spread on that. This has been argued pretty heavily for the last few weeks.

    Cel

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    • #3
      At the first sound of horse and cart, I'm making a beeline for greener pastures. As I don't know who, or how many people, are coming around the corner. "He who kills and runs away......".

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      • #4
        Hull Daily Mail
        October 2, 1888


        Supposed Narrow Escape of the Murderer

        The police believe that, after murdering the woman Stride, the murderer narrowly escaped being caught. They are of the opinion that he was in the yard when Mr. Diemshitz drove into it and that he mingled with the crowd that rushed out of the club, and ultimately made his escape before the police arrived.


        Not too sure I believe it, though.

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        • #5
          Nor do I, JD.
          The killer could have been some distance away by the time Diemschitz and his horse pulled into the yard.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
            Nor do I, JD.
            The killer could have been some distance away by the time Diemschitz and his horse pulled into the yard.
            If he were the same killer as Eddowes, he didn't have much time to mingle. Plus, anyone slipping away from the crowd likely would have been suspect.

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            • #7
              And if he was forced to stick around due to circumstances and hadn't been in the IWMEC or known to the members, someone would have remembered a stranger.
              IMHO
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              • #8
                Some even think he hid behind the wooden gates, but there was no room there when they swung open.
                I think he was gone by the moment Diemschitz arrived, but exactly why is hard to establish. Tom Wescott used to promote the idea that he never was gonna go for Strides´ entrails anyway, since he had decided beforehand that he would kill two women that night, and consequently, he needed to avoid bloodstaining in combination with the first strike.
                Not sure I agree with it, but the suggestion is interesting at any rate. I do think we are dealing with a thoroughbred psychopath, and such a man could well come up with that kind of an idea. Plus going by how there are seemingly elements of displaying the victims involved, it may well be that he liked the attention he was getting and thrived on it. To that end, a double strike would be logical.
                "In these matters it is the little things that tell the tales" - Coroner Wynne Baxter during the Nichols inquest.

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                • #9
                  Plus going by how there are seemingly elements of displaying the victims involved, it may well be that he liked the attention he was getting and thrived on it. To that end, a double strike would be logical.
                  -Christer Holmgren-

                  If Stride was a Ripper victim, then it isn't too much of a stretch, to me, to envision the killer to go look for another one and make sure those elements of display found in the previous murders were found in the Eddowes' murder.

                  No idea why anyone thinks they can state with any certainty or special insight that the killer wasn't going to eviscerate Stride, regardless of whether he was the Ripper or not. I'm with you on that, CH.
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                  • #10
                    My opinion is Liz was Jack's victim and he killed her to keep her quiet. Either she and he knew each other (the woman cried out "no, no, no" but not loudly). She refused to go with him. Or he asked her to go with him and she said no. He was insistent and she resisted. Under either scenario maybe she said something like, "Who do you think you are, Leather Apron?"

                    So I think he had to kill her. He would have rather had her in a place where he could indulge himself. The club yard was too dangerous even for Jack, with people coming in and out willy-nilly. I think he killed her and walked away on Berner Street.

                    His urges were not satisfied so he ran into Kate and talked her into going with him. I think that is why she was killed away from the general area of operation. He got as far away from his mistake as possible.

                    Which brings me to another point to ponder. Did Jack have a schedule or family responsibility that restricted the nights on which he could roam? I have a crazy picture of a half lunatic Jack being kept in with family and only let out occasionally when he seemed the most sane. Don't know why but I have long wondered about that.
                    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                    • #11
                      Wasn't there some toilets just to the side of the murder site? Maybe he ducked into one of them at the last second?

                      If he bolted before the cart pulled in, would Diemschutz not have seen him leaving the vicinity?

                      I think that more and more I am coming round to see Jack as more a cool and calculating customer rather than a chancer. Therefore, I reckon he hid himself away in the shadows, ready to run like hell if he was spotted.

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                      • #12
                        I still believe he'd been long gone before then...disturbed not by the horse and cart, but by Schwartz and Pipeman...

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cogidubnus View Post
                          I still believe he'd been long gone before then...disturbed not by the horse and cart, but by Schwartz and Pipeman...
                          Added to which was the possibility that he (i.e. BS Man) worried that Schwartz/Pipeman would send a policeman to investigate the assault they'd seen at Dutfield's Yard.
                          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                          "Suche Nullen"
                          (F. Nietzsche)

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                          • #14
                            Quite...hence his angrily snarled "Lipski", perhaps frustrated at two meddlesome Jews disturbing his routine...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cogidubnus View Post
                              Quite...hence his angrily snarled "Lipski", perhaps frustrated at two meddlesome Jews disturbing his routine...
                              If this was the case I just don't see why Stride, didn't run off after being pushed to the ground? Are we to imagine that BS man, picks her up and drags her (kicking and screaming?) into Dutfield's yard to cut her throat?

                              Really?

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