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  • #46
    Thanks again, Debs. I've been rereading Shelden. Having the original records to consult makes it so much clearer.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
      Thanks again, Debs. I've been rereading Shelden. Having the original records to consult makes it so much clearer.
      You're welcome, Gary. I've got some more little bits somewhere that were settlement/removal related but I'm really rubbish at keeping things in order.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
        It is just my faulty wording, Anna. My point was that in Polly's own statement she said that when she split with her husband she entered Lambeth workhouse directly from the home she shared with her husband and family. It is generally thought that Polly split from her husband in 1881 because she doesn't appear on the census with him.This is what I am trying to find, where she was in 81. Poster DJA thought she was a patient in the London hospital who was listed as single and born in Bow. Was she? I believe some books say she was in the Lambeth workhouse in 81.

        "..Married at St Brides Church Fleet St 16 January 1864. Maiden name Walker. Husband has got the certificate-When we separated I went
        direct into Lambeth workhouse from No 6 D Block. Then it was agreed husband should allow me s 5/- a week which he did for 2 years
        which I received from Mr Tavener at Lambeth Workhouse..."

        It was Tavener who helped Polly sort out maintenance payments from her husband IIRC.
        Thanks for the explanation, Debra. How common would it have been for support payments to be made made in that way? I don't have a good understanding of the system but I could see why making payments through the workhouse would make sense.
        The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
          Thanks for the explanation, Debra. How common would it have been for support payments to be made made in that way? I don't have a good understanding of the system but I could see why making payments through the workhouse would make sense.
          It isn't something I have looked at in any real depth , Anna. Perhaps because Polly had no home at the time she made the claim against William, and it was Mr Tevers, attached to the workhouse who apparently helped her with that claim, then it may have simply been the only way Polly was able to access the money?

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
            You're welcome, Gary. I've got some more little bits somewhere that were settlement/removal related but I'm really rubbish at keeping things in order.
            Here are some more of my transcribed bits and bobs:

            Register of orders of removal outwards Holborn union 3342 Nicholls Mary Ann, 14 Feb order 7th March written underneath date, removed to Lambeth, nature of settlement residence, posted 14th Feb 1888, not accepted.

            3356 7th March Nicholls Mary Ann, settlement Lambeth, settlement through residence, posted at the post office K? Green on the 12th March by me signature added William P? delivered to the porter the Lambeth workhouse on 16th April 1888 by the HB?? maintenance 1 5s paid 19th May 1888, depns 21/3/88

            Lambeth Lambeth Orders of Removal Register of orders of removal and adjudication inwards, 1877-1889
            851 March 7th Nicholls Mary Ann, age 36, order obtained by Holborn Union, March 13th, pauper removed april 16th 1888, from Mitcham workhouse, time charged 13th march 1888 to 16th april 1888, cost 1 5s. 5 weeks, paid 2nd may 88

            Settlement Examination (copy)
            Infirmary 13 feb 1888
            re Mary Ann Nichols, 36, married, destitute
            Not seen or heard of husband William Nichols 6 or 7 years. Woman lived in Vine Street 4 nights
            woman lived in Fulwoods Rents 3 nights
            December 1887 in Edmonton workhouse , Strand Union, 4 or 5 weeks. No home since separated from husband which was no 6 D Block
            Peabody Buildings Stamford Street, Blackfriars. lived there 6 years paid 5/9 a week left there 7 or 8 years ago.
            Married at St Brides Church Fleet St 16 January 1864. Maiden name Walker. Husband has got the certificate-When we separated I went
            direct into Lambeth workhouse from No 6 D Blaock. Then it was agreed husband should allow me s 5/- a week which he did for 2 years
            which I received from Mr Tavener at Lambeth Workhouse.
            I was in Lambeth Workhouse December 1887 2 weeks and was turned out. I don't know where husband has been living last 6 or 7 years.
            Paupers father- Walker at 16 Madewell Street or Maydewell Street, Allbany Road, Camberwell S.E.

            1. That the Pauper has come to inhabit, and is now inhabiting the Hoborn Union, not having gained legal settlement there, nor
            having produced a Certificate acknowledging a Settlement elsewhere, nor having become irremovable by residence; and that she has
            become and is now actually chargeable to and receiving relief therefrom.

            2. That the said pauper is the wife of William Nichols now absent from her to whom she was married at Saint Brides Church Fleet
            Street on or about the 16th day of January one thousand eight hundred and sixty four.

            3. That the pauper resided continuosly for more than three years prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eighty at
            No. 6 D Block Peabody Buildings Stamford Street Blackfriars in your ? parish in such manner and under such circumstances as to
            gain a residential settlement in accordance with the act 39 & 40 Vic Cap 61 Sec 34.

            Examination of James William Hill, Clerk to the Guardians of the Poor at Holborn Union, in the County of Middlesex,
            touching the last place of legal settlement of Mary Ann Nicholls, aged about 36 years. Wife of William Nicholls, now absent rom her.

            Taken and sworn at the Guardians Offices, Clerkenwell Road in the county of Middlesex, the day and year first aforesaid bu us
            signed Joseph E Green and Joseph J Goode
            James W Hill

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            • #51
              Some of the earlier Wandsworth records have Nicholl's occupation as 'servant'.

              On the 1881 census there is a MAN shown in Chatham Workhouse: age 45 (b 1836); occupation domestic servant; POB Bermondsey.

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              • #52
                The unmarried woman born Brighton seems very dodgy.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                  The unmarried woman born Brighton seems very dodgy.
                  In what way?

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                    Some of the earlier Wandsworth records have Nicholl's occupation as 'servant'.

                    On the 1881 census there is a MAN shown in Chatham Workhouse: age 45 (b 1836); occupation domestic servant; POB Bermondsey.
                    Wrong woman, I think. In 1911 she's living in Gillingham with her 37-year-old son who was born in Chatham. So probably not in Lambeth in 1874.

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                    • #55
                      I can't find hide nor hair of her anywhere else.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                        The unmarried woman born Brighton seems very dodgy.
                        Is that the one in the Lambeth workhouse in 81, Robert b c 1833? The one who wasn't in the creed register for census night?

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                          Some of the earlier Wandsworth records have Nicholl's occupation as 'servant'.

                          On the 1881 census there is a MAN shown in Chatham Workhouse: age 45 (b 1836); occupation domestic servant; POB Bermondsey.
                          The Wandworth woman you found was supposed to be in Lambeth workhouse according to the 1881 census?

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                            I can't find hide nor hair of her anywhere else.
                            Yes, I had that problem.

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                            • #59
                              It can't be, can it, that the woman who appears in the creed register was missed from the census and the woman on the census wasn't recorded in the CR? It has to be the same woman mucking about with her age, surely?

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                              • #60
                                Yes Debs. I looked at the 1841 and I think there was a Mary A living Lambeth, birth place elsewhere, but following the family up was difficult.

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