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Polly Nichols ?

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  • #61
    I think I have her in 71 in St John's Westminster, she's a single charwoman b in Brighton and living in a lodging house. She's listed with a Robert Nicholls, unmarried aged 62. Perhaps a relative?

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    • #62
      Maybe it was two members of the Old Nicholls Gang.

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      • #63
        Thanks Debs. That's interesting.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
          The Wandworth woman you found was supposed to be in Lambeth workhouse according to the 1881 census?
          Of course, Debs. But with all the age discrepancies I was just wondering how many of these women there were.

          Two would be my best guess: the Buck's Row victim and the violent one described in the Signal.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
            It can't be, can it, that the woman who appears in the creed register was missed from the census and the woman on the census wasn't recorded in the CR? It has to be the same woman mucking about with her age, surely?
            I don't understand what you mean, Gary. Yes, they women b 1833 and 1843 could have been the same woman. The woman on the census was born in Brighton, she corresponds to the age of the older MA b c 1833. Even if she alternated her age she could still have been born in Brighton?

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
              Maybe it was two members of the Old Nicholls Gang.
              Or one who was a member of both the Old Nichols and the Slightly Younger Nichols. That would work.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                I don't understand what you mean, Gary. Yes, they women b 1833 and 1843 could have been the same woman. The woman on the census was born in Brighton, she corresponds to the age of the older MA b c 1833. Even if she alternated her age she could still have been born in Brighton?
                Sorry if it wasn't clear. I'm saying they almost certainly were the same woman.

                I sincerely hope this doesn't end up with me having to pay another trip to Brighton.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                  Sorry if it wasn't clear. I'm saying they almost certainly were the same woman.

                  I sincerely hope this doesn't end up with me having to pay another trip to Brighton.

                  Yes. The violent pauper who assaulted the matron in Lambeth workhosue b c 1843 is certainly the woman who used the workhouse regularly and says she was born in 1843 and is highly likely also the woman using Lambeth workhouse who says she was born c 1833 . The Wandsworth records support that and the census entry kind of bears that out in a way too seeing as the Lambeth creed register has it the oppsite way around. It still doesn't answer where Polly was in 81 unfortunately.

                  Don't forget the rock this time if you go again.

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                  • #69
                    And that means the woman I found regularly entering Newington casual ward could be Polly as these records date clash with the woman in Lambeth workhouse b c 1843.

                    Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1880 - 1881 Admitted Sat. Oct 30 1880 Mary Ann Nicholls, age 30, ironer, slep last at Woolwich, going to Wandsworth

                    Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1881 Admitted Sunday July 10th 1881, Mary Ann Nicholls, age 30, laundry, slept last at Greenwich, destination Notting Hill

                    Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1881 Admitted Sunday July 30th 1881, Mary Ann Nicholls. age 30, laundry, slept last night Paddington, destination Greenwich,

                    Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1880 - 1881 Admitted March 14th 1882. Mary Ann Nicholls, laundry, slept last night Croydon, destination Greenwich

                    Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1880 - 1881 Admitted Feb 17th 1881. Mary Ann Nichols, age 30, laundry, slept last night Croydon, destination Notting Hill

                    Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1880 - 1881 Admitted April 6th 1881, Mary Ann Nichols, age 30, laundry, slept last night Plumstead, destination Notting Hill

                    Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1880 - 1881 Admitted June 5th 1881, Mary Ann Nichols, age 30, ironer, slept last night Greenwich, destination Lewisham

                    Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1880 - 1881 Admitted Aug 11th 1881. Mary Ann Nichols, age 30. laundry, slept last night Peckham, destination Croydon

                    Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1880 - 1881 Admitted Oct 30th 1881, Mary Ann Nichols, age 30, washing, slept last night Richmons, destination Whitechapel

                    Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, 1881-1882 Admitted 5th Jan 1882, Mary ann Nichols, age 30, washing, slept last night Hackney, destination Greenwich

                    Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, 1881-1882 Admitted April 17th 1882, Mary Ann Nichols, age 30, slept last night Hackney, destination Croydon , detained by Mr Armitage

                    Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1887 Admitted May 21st 1887, Mary Ann Nichols, age 35, cleaning, slept last night Fullham, destination Croydon, detained by Mr Everett

                    Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1887 Admitted Oct 5th 1887, Mary ann Nichols, age 35, spent last night at Shoe Lane. destination Greenwich

                    I know this woman was younger than the real age for Polly but it is documented in the Lambeth settlement records that Polly gave her date of birth as c 1852.

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                    • #70
                      If it is her, then she was intending at least to go to Whitechapel as early as 1881.

                      There's also a reference to Richmond and there was a woman of the same name who was convicted of some offence or other at Richmond who I discounted. I'll have another look

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                        If it is her, then she was intending at least to go to Whitechapel as early as 1881.

                        There's also a reference to Richmond and there was a woman of the same name who was convicted of some offence or other at Richmond who I discounted. I'll have another look
                        Entered Wandsworth 2/4/1874 having been convicted at Richmond. A hawker, 5' 1.5 and '5 months advanced in pregnancy'. Offence DK & R.

                        Age 22

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                        • #72
                          I see that occupations are coming up in the search. Except for Polly's last known job in service, do we have any idea what work she may have done along the way? Did she work when she was married? Did she work in between stays at the workhouses? We know work backgrounds for Liz and Kate. Mary seems always to have been a prostitute. Annie and Polly left marriages. Annie did crochet work and some hawking but I don't remember much said about Polly doing any specific things other than maybe "charwoman".
                          The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                          • #73
                            The woman mentioned by Debs below seems to have been fairly consistently in the laundry line.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                              And that means the woman I found regularly entering Newington casual ward could be Polly as these records date clash with the woman in Lambeth workhouse b c 1843.

                              Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1880 - 1881 Admitted Sat. Oct 30 1880 Mary Ann Nicholls, age 30, ironer, slep last at Woolwich, going to Wandsworth

                              Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1881 Admitted Sunday July 10th 1881, Mary Ann Nicholls, age 30, laundry, slept last at Greenwich, destination Notting Hill

                              Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1881 Admitted Sunday July 30th 1881, Mary Ann Nicholls. age 30, laundry, slept last night Paddington, destination Greenwich,

                              Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1880 - 1881 Admitted March 14th 1882. Mary Ann Nicholls, laundry, slept last night Croydon, destination Greenwich

                              Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1880 - 1881 Admitted Feb 17th 1881. Mary Ann Nichols, age 30, laundry, slept last night Croydon, destination Notting Hill

                              Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1880 - 1881 Admitted April 6th 1881, Mary Ann Nichols, age 30, laundry, slept last night Plumstead, destination Notting Hill

                              Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1880 - 1881 Admitted June 5th 1881, Mary Ann Nichols, age 30, ironer, slept last night Greenwich, destination Lewisham

                              Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1880 - 1881 Admitted Aug 11th 1881. Mary Ann Nichols, age 30. laundry, slept last night Peckham, destination Croydon

                              Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1880 - 1881 Admitted Oct 30th 1881, Mary Ann Nichols, age 30, washing, slept last night Richmons, destination Whitechapel

                              Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, 1881-1882 Admitted 5th Jan 1882, Mary ann Nichols, age 30, washing, slept last night Hackney, destination Greenwich

                              Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, 1881-1882 Admitted April 17th 1882, Mary Ann Nichols, age 30, slept last night Hackney, destination Croydon , detained by Mr Armitage

                              Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1887 Admitted May 21st 1887, Mary Ann Nichols, age 35, cleaning, slept last night Fullham, destination Croydon, detained by Mr Everett

                              Newington Workhouse Vagrants Register, Southwark 1887 Admitted Oct 5th 1887, Mary ann Nichols, age 35, spent last night at Shoe Lane. destination Greenwich

                              I know this woman was younger than the real age for Polly but it is documented in the Lambeth settlement records that Polly gave her date of birth as c 1852.

                              Quite a nomadic lifestyle. And presumably she used Shanks's Pony. It's a long way on foot from Hackney to Croydon or Greenwich to Notting Hill.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                                The woman mentioned by Debs below seems to have been fairly consistently in the laundry line.
                                A couple of times in 83 and 84 a Mary Ann Nicholls listed as born 1848 and 1843, and described as a laundress appears in the Lambeth workhouse. Stewart Evans included these stays in a workhouse timeline he posted for Polly on the Trafalgar Square source thread

                                https://www.jtrforums.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=48

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