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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    That’s better. Thanks.

    It’s only a few random posts, Dusty, I’m sure no one will mind. The top cart does look very similar and you can see how the shafts have been added to allow for the hitching of the donkey. Perhaps some had foldable legs that could be pulled down to turn the cart into a stall.

    Are there any representations of D’s cart that shows it as a coster’s barrow with shafts added? (A new thread perhaps?)

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  • Dusty Miller
    replied
    Not sure why, but I don't want to disrupt this "Polly" thread anymore as it's been really useful so far.
    Attached Files

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Dusty Miller View Post
    [ATTACH]21072[/ATTACH]

    [ATTACH]21073[/ATTACH]
    I canít see those images for some reason, Dusty.

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  • Dusty Miller
    replied
    [ATTACH]21072[/ATTACH]

    [ATTACH]21073[/ATTACH]

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    https://spitalfieldslife.com/2016/10...ller-brothers/

    https://spitalfieldslife.com/2010/03...-spitalfields/

    These were very much hand carts for market traders. Not the sort of thing you’d hitch Black Beauty to and trot off to Crystal Palace.

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Ďorse? Wot Ďorse?

    046C5D09-8A2D-4DDF-AA13-F7FC090C4887.jpeg

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Dusty Miller View Post
    Minus the two stand legs at the front, very much so.
    The very word ‘barrow’ describes a hand cart. Perhaps at one time these were carts drawn by donkeys, and then the shafts were shortened and the stands were added?

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  • Dusty Miller
    replied
    Minus the two stand legs at the front, very much so.

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Dusty Miller View Post
    Hey Gary, is that Louis's barrow I see in your picture?
    Hi Dusty!

    I must admit, I havenít followed the barrow discussion over at Casebook too closely, but Iíd be surprised if that particular design was ever horse-drawn.

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  • Dusty Miller
    replied
    Hey Gary, is that Louis's barrow I see in your picture?

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
    That is interesting about the oakum. It looks like they simply--or with difficulty--separated the ply. I always pictured the process as complete shredding down to basic fibers. (Probably everyone understands rope or yarn making; fibers to roving to single ply thread/yarn/rope to combination of single ply to many ply for strength. Thus the old "rope walks".)

    Some people are allergic to jute which made the rope of those days. I have done a lot of fiber arts but could never do hooked rugs because my husband was allergic to the usually used jute backing. He had asthmatic reactions to a short list of substances and jute seemed to be one. I mentioned this to my best friend and she said jute rope causes a skin reaction on her hands. SO...........think of picking oakum........ Allergy to jute I think is somewhat common. No wonder Victorian people had such long stays in infirmaries and asylums. (Not to mention the physically damaging make-work projects like stone breaking...)
    Thanks, Anna, I wasnít aware of jute allergies. That would have made the undertaking even more painful for some.

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Dark House Lane by Gustav Dore

    9CE0F7FD-B479-4237-A1D7-B33875DD7B5E.jpeg

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Lovat Lane

    Apologies for the diversion, but speaking of my Billingsgate experiences reminds me of an interesting discovery I made a while back. The cold, dank basement was in Lovat Lane, just across the road from the market itself. In this photo* it was roughly where the ‘Tubby Isaacs’ sign is. I’ve no idea if it was Tubby’s whelks we shelled. I think we got our dosh from a man called Bill in the main market building. He paid us 10 bob for each sack label we produced.

    Take note of what look like white plastic boxes at the entrance to the lane on the right. They are actually blocks of ice. Before the market building was erected in the 1870s, Dark House Lane was opposite Lovat (Love) Lane across Lower Thames Street (see next post).

    2C967202-DAD3-47F4-A766-77C705206BDE.jpeg

    * https://spitalfieldslife.com/2014/04...gsgate-market/

    Leave a comment:


  • Anna Morris
    replied
    That is interesting about the oakum. It looks like they simply--or with difficulty--separated the ply. I always pictured the process as complete shredding down to basic fibers. (Probably everyone understands rope or yarn making; fibers to roving to single ply thread/yarn/rope to combination of single ply to many ply for strength. Thus the old "rope walks".)

    Some people are allergic to jute which made the rope of those days. I have done a lot of fiber arts but could never do hooked rugs because my husband was allergic to the usually used jute backing. He had asthmatic reactions to a short list of substances and jute seemed to be one. I mentioned this to my best friend and she said jute rope causes a skin reaction on her hands. SO...........think of picking oakum........ Allergy to jute I think is somewhat common. No wonder Victorian people had such long stays in infirmaries and asylums. (Not to mention the physically damaging make-work projects like stone breaking...)

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Junk was the name given to old ropes and cables once used on ships. These were cut up and then finely picked into fibres to create oakum. Oakum was then mixed with tar or grease and used as caulking to fill in the gaps between the wooden planks of ships to make them watertight.

    Picking oakum was used as a punishment in prison, and in workhouses as a way of able-bodied inmates earning their board and lodging.

    Prisoners serving hard labour would cut the rope into two foot lengths and then strike it with a heavy mallet to remove the very hard tar in which it was coated. Once this was done, it was passed to prisoners who were serving a lesser sentence: men, women and children. They then had to uncoil, unravel, unpick, and shred the rope into fibres.

    The work was monotonous, unpleasant, and created sores on blackened fingers. The rope was held in place by a iron hook held between their knees as they worked. Sometimes they would use an iron nail or spike, or a piece of tin or knife to work on the fibres, but fingers were found to be the best.



    Reminds me of when I were a lad and used to sit in a cold, dank basement in Billingsgate removing whelks from their shells. The whelks were kept fresh by means of constantly running water, and your fingers absorbed the water and were shredded by the rough exteriors of the shells. We had to be there by 5.30 on a Sunday morning and used to get the first District Line train from Dagenham East. When it was cold we used to yearn for the good old days spent up warm chimneys ��.

    But you got 10 bob for each sack of whelks you processed- 10 bob! My weekly pocket money was only 2/6 at the time. We easily got through half a dozen sacks in a morning (the in-shell whelks smuggled out under our West Ham bobble hats helped reduce the workload).

    Leave a comment:

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