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  • Polly Nichols ?

    I'm not sure if this is already known. The dates are wrong for Polly, aren't they?

    But if it's not her, could this violent Lambeth inmate with the same name be the woman who, according to the Women's Signal article quoted by Tom in Ripper Confidential, secreted knives and was imprisoned for attempting to stab a workhouse official?

    From The Standard 18th October, 1879.

    image.jpeg

  • #2
    I think I've found some Wandsworth records for her. She seems to be a few years older than Polly. I'll post the details later.

    For now, I'm wondering if the author of the Women’s Signal article may have confused the two women when she heard of the murder of an ex-Lambeth inmate named Mary Ann Nichols.

    Comment


    • #3
      From the Women's Signal 27th Sept., 1894.

      (Originally discovered by Debs and posted on the Forums.)

      The introduction of a superior class of paid nurses, which has become the rule in Workhouse Infirmaries, renders it possible to employ workhouse girls in little tasks among the sick and suffering. Workhouse tempers become subdued in those corridors of pain, where girls of there own age lie dying. One of the most violent of this class, who was in the habit of secreting table knives, and who had been imprisoned for attempting to stab an official, became completely tamed under the influence of kindness. Change of residence having removed me from the neighbourhood, she was lost sight of, and relapsed into vice finally meeting with a violent end as the first victim of the Whitechapel outrages.

      Comment


      • #4
        That's really spooky, Gary. Earlier today I was going over Lambeth workhouse records and noticed that in 1881 a woman named Mary ann Nicholls, aged 50, so, much older than our Mary Ann Nichols was brought in to the workhouse by police and went off to prison, She was also brought back to the same workhouse after prison. I was going to post on the table knife thread I started a few years back, asking if perhaps this was the woman being remembered.

        On Casebook a while back a certain Madam Detective (HR?) questioned that Nicholls was in the Lambeth workhouse in 1881 as some books say. I mentioned that there were three women with the name in the creed registers from 1881 to 84, all of different ages. While the 1881 census showed it was the older Polly in the Lambeth workhouse , the creed register showed differently and has one of the younger women in there in April 1881. Madam also thought that Polly wouldn't have been in the workhouse in 81 because her estranged husband was paying her maintenance at the time but I posted something from the settlement registers from Polly's own statement where she says she entered the Lambeth workhouse directly from Peabody buildings when she split up with her husband and her allowance was collected there.

        https://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=1376&page=2

        Comment


        • #5
          The DOBs from the Wandsworth records range from 1838 - 1843. Polly's was 1845 I believe? At least one describes the prisoner as a pauper.

          Comment


          • #6
            Gary, Debs...

            I'm going to alter the title of the thread slightly by adding her surname. I'd like to use it as a Tweet and FB post.

            Thanks...
            To Join JTR Forums :
            Contact Howard@jtrforums.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Here's one of the Wandsworth records, from 1877:

              Mary Ann Nicholls

              Age: 34

              Height: 4' 10"

              Eyes: Brown

              Hair: Dk Brown

              Complexion: Pale

              Marks: Scar left arm. Several teeth deficient both jaws.

              Occupation: Charwoman

              Magistrate: Geo Chance Esq. Lambeth

              Committed: 30/4/77

              Tried: 30/4/77

              Offence: Assault

              Expiration/Discharge: 29/5/77

              Previous: 11. Last 7/9/75 2 months

              Read/Write: R/N

              Religion: CH

              Weight in/Out: 7.12/7.13

              Birth place: E(ngland)

              Comments:

              image.jpeg

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
                Gary, Debs...

                I'm going to alter the title of the thread slightly by adding her surname. I'd like to use it as a Tweet and FB post.

                Thanks...
                We may end up with half a dozen different Polly Nichols' creating havoc in Lambeth.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                  That's really spooky, Gary. Earlier today I was going over Lambeth workhouse records and noticed that in 1881 a woman named Mary ann Nicholls, aged 50, so much older than our Mary Ann Nichols was brought in to the workhouse by police and went off to prison, She was also brought back to the same workhouse after prison. I was going to post on the table knife thread I started a few years back, asking if perhaps this was the woman being remembered.

                  On Casebook a while back a certain Madam Detective (HR?) questioned that Nicholls was in the Lambeth workhouse in 1881 as some books say. I mentioned that there were three women with the name in the creed registers from 1881 to 84, all of different ages. While the 1881 census showed it was the older Polly in the Lambeth workhouse , the creed register showed differently and has one of the younger women in there in April 1881. Madam also thought that Polly wouldn't have been in the workhouse in 81 because her ex husband was paying her maintenance at the time but I posted something from the settlement registers from Polly's own statement where she says she entered the Lambeth workhouse directly from Peabody buildings when she split up with her husband and her allowance was collected there.

                  https://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=1376&page=2
                  Madam Detective? How predictable.

                  I can hear Robert sending a calming 'Om' as I type.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This from '75 looks like the same lady, though there are some discrepancies:

                    Mary Ann Nicholls

                    Age: 34

                    Height: 4' 10"

                    Eyes: Brown

                    Hair: Dk Grey (ditto record above)

                    Complexion: Sallow

                    Marks: None

                    Occupation: Charwoman

                    Magistrate: G. Chance Esq. Lambeth

                    Committed: 21/8/75

                    Tried: 21/8/75

                    Offence: Disorderly Pauper

                    Expiration/Discharge: 30/8/75

                    Previous: 9. Last 15:2/75 2 months

                    Read/Write: R/N

                    Religion: CH

                    Weight in/Out: 7.13/7.12

                    Birth place: E(ngland)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Gary, I'll look in the Lambeth creed registers for the 70's and see how many of the three were regulars then.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                        Gary, I'll look in the Lambeth creed registers for the 70's and see how many of the three were regulars then.
                        Thanks, Debs. I'll look at the other prison records tomorrow.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is the 77 workhouse entry that corresponds to the report you found, Gary.

                          admitted 5/1/77
                          M.A. Nicholls age 34 charwoman discharged 30/4/77 for assaulting the matron sentenced 4 months imprisonment.

                          This woman has several entries in the workhouse in the 70's. I will try and compare her to the three women named MA Nicholls who used the Lambeth workhouse in the 80's, one of them being our lady.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think the troublesome Polly in Trafalgar Square looked a good fit because of the name and connections to Lambeth/Walworth/The City (POB)?

                            If the 'disorderly pauper' was not the Buck's Row victim, she might be just as good a fit. A City POB might make her an even better candidate, because we know she was troublesome.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                              This is the 77 workhouse entry that corresponds to the report you found, Gary.

                              admitted 5/1/77
                              M.A. Nicholls age 34 charwoman discharged 30/4/77 for assaulting the matron sentenced 4 months imprisonment.

                              This woman has several entries in the workhouse in the 70's. I will try and compare her to the three women named MA Nicholls who used the Lambeth workhouse in the 80's, one of them being our lady.
                              Great stuff, Debs!

                              She's likely to be the lady in the Wandsworth registers too, isn't she? Same name, age, occupation and a 'disorderly' Lambeth inmate.

                              Comment

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