Mary Ann's Background

[Gary Barnett]

Neal Shelden put a few details about Edward John and Percy on this thread, if it helps.

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-victims/mary-ann-polly-nichols/17375-new-mary-ann-nichols-family-information

I'm intrigued what poor law record I saw on SPE's Facebook page back then. I have a settlement record for Mary Ann Nicholls but it doesn't mention a step-father, which is apparently what the document I linked to (link no longer works) was about.

That is really odd. Was it a Lambeth record, do you remember?

[Debra Arif]

That is really odd. Was it a Lambeth record, do you remember?

I can't remember. From what I do remember it was only a partial photograph SPE posted but there was apparently a bit about a stepfather. I looked through many settlement records and found a couple for Mary Ann but not the one posted by SPE.

[Jose Oranto]

I can't remember. From what I do remember it was only a partial photograph SPE posted but there was apparently a bit about a stepfather. I looked through many settlement records and found a couple for Mary Ann but not the one posted by SPE.

This, based on the factual information we have, seems very unlikely, but it is a possibility that I am considering in Annie Chapman, the idea that George Smith was her stepfather runs through my mind

[Debra Arif]

Debs,

The St Bride’s, Fleet Street reference is rather odd.

Am I right in thinking you (A-Z) have the death certificate for William?

Gary

No, we didn't get the death certificate, I got the year of death informationand burial from the GRO death index and burial record, same as the ones the man in 'find a grave' used that Chris posted a link to. 'Under the line' for entries we have a list of GRO, birth, baptism, census, death and burial records for siblings, children etc of the subject.

St Bride's Fleet street is the baptism record source, found by Oldridge (Mark Ripper) according to Neil's citation

[Debra Arif]

This, based on the factual information we have, seems very unlikely, but it is a possibility that I am considering in Annie Chapman, the idea that George Smith was her stepfather runs through my mind

It does seem unlikely but it was apparently (going by my observations at the time on the thread I linked to) visible on the teaser photograph SPE posted from a poor law settlement or something similar, so may have been something she claimed. Perhaps it related to her husband.
I have also looked into that with Annie Chapman. It seems an obvious option given that she was born out of wedlock but I haven't found a likely GRO birth entry for her as a Chapman to test the theory. It was a common occurrence, especially among officers of the City and Metropolitan Police!

[Debra Arif]

I wish I had taken a screen shot now as there is an event connected to Polly that in a roundabout way involves a stepfather that has just sprung to mind.

[Jose Oranto]

I wish I had taken a screen shot now as there is an event connected to Polly that in a roundabout way involves a stepfather that has just sprung to mind.

Debra, her stepfather was James Walker, also a smith, ha!

[Gary Barnett]

No, we didn't get the death certificate, I got the year of death informationand burial from the GRO death index and burial record, same as the ones the man in 'find a grave' used that Chris posted a link to. 'Under the line' for entries we have a list of GRO, birth, baptism, census, death and burial records for siblings, children etc of the subject.

St Bride's Fleet street is the baptism record source, found by Oldridge (Mark Ripper) according to Neil's citation

Ah, I see I misread Neil’s citation.

[Debra Arif]

Debra, her stepfather was James Walker, also a smith, ha!

Ha.
Personally I find the settlement and poor law records fascinating and useful for filling in gaps and would love to see that record again.

By the way. There has been lots of research and discussion on Nichols sleeping rough in Trafalgar Square on these forums and personally, after years of research, I would suggest that it was October 1887 when Nicholls was definitely sleeping rough there.

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/ripp...437#post497437

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-victims/mary-ann-polly-nichols/18918-trafalgar-square-mary-ann-nichols-source-needed/page2#post425323

[Jose Oranto]

Ha.
Personally I find the settlement and poor law records fascinating and useful for filling in gaps and would love to see that record again.

By the way. There has been lots of research and discussion on Nichols sleeping rough in Trafalgar Square on these forums and personally, after years of research, I would suggest that it was October 1887 when Nicholls was definitely sleeping rough there.

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/ripp...437#post497437

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-victims/mary-ann-polly-nichols/18918-trafalgar-square-mary-ann-nichols-source-needed/page2#post425323

It would be great if you found it!

Thank you very much Debra for sharing the link, it will keep me busy

[Phillip Walton]

Thank you Gary, It's up to the translator, we have no term for 'Court', I must admit that this has given me headaches for a long time... streets, lanes, roads, alleys, courts...

I will replace it with 'a small enclosed area, behind and accessible from Gunpowder Alley', Thanks again Gary

I'm not sure if these two will translate from Spanish to court.
La cancha
court, field, ground

El patio.

The term courtyard translates as patio.

[Jose Oranto]

I'm not sure if these two will translate from Spanish to court.
La cancha
court, field, ground

El patio.

The term courtyard translates as patio.

Hi Phillip

Thank you very much

Actually, even if the translator gives those options, it doesn't make sense in my language. In Spain, the concept 'court' is reserved, solely and exclusively (regardless of what the dictionary says), to refer to a 'basketball court'.

When, for example, I mention 'Miller's Court' for the first time in my book, I cannot simply say 'patio', I have to add an explanatory note to that word. For me a 'patio' is the open air back of a house, that is, exclusively where Annie Chapman was found.

But hey, nothing we can't fix by describing the places!

[Jose Oranto]

By the way. There has been lots of research and discussion on Nichols sleeping rough in Trafalgar Square on these forums and personally, after years of research, I would suggest that it was October 1887 when Nicholls was definitely sleeping rough there.

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/ripp...437#post497437

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-victims/mary-ann-polly-nichols/18918-trafalgar-square-mary-ann-nichols-source-needed/page2#post425323

Fascinating stuff Debra, thanks again

Re-editing the background on the go

[Gary Barnett]

This may be of interest: Edward William Walker Nicholls died on 24th November, 1866 aged 2 years (actually 1 yr 11 months if we have the birth date right).

[Gary Barnett]

What I find absolutely astonishing is that an author who claims to be an historian and who has the financial backing of a mainstream publisher apparently couldn’t be arsed or was too parsimonious to send off for a few GRO certs.

Who knows what additional info might have been on them.