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  • #46
    Thanks. That's very helpful.

    I think it's quite possible that, as has been suggested, she contented herself with whatever second-hand information had been given to her.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
      This may be of interest: Edward William Walker Nicholls died on 24th November, 1866 aged 2 years (actually 1 yr 11 months if we have the birth date right).

      Great Gary! I appreciate it, I'll re-edit it this evening.

      I agree with you, she could have gone to some trouble to have acquired some certificates. I'm completely broke, I just ordered Georgina and Miriam Ruth's birth certificates to confirm their place of birth and complete Annie's and I am going to order Sergeant Thick's family haha

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      • #48
        Occasionally you discover unexpected gems on BMD certs. One of my most memorable was when I obtained the marriage cert of a horse slaughterer named Nicholas Shippy who appears on the 1881 census boarding with Henry Tomkins (the Nichols witness) in Manchester. The male witness who signed the certificate was my ggg grandfather.

        There have been other great finds, and I have to confess that whenever I send off for a cert relating to Breezers Hill/Pennington Street in the mid-1880s I’m always hopeful that it may show a witness or informant named Mary Kelly.

        This is obviously somewhat off-topic, but where do you stand on whether Thick framed Pizer as being Leather Apron?

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
          Occasionally you discover unexpected gems on BMD certs. One of my most memorable was when I obtained the marriage cert of a horse slaughterer named Nicholas Shippy who appears on the 1881 census boarding with Henry Tomkins (the Nichols witness) in Manchester. The male witness who signed the certificate was my ggg grandfather.

          There have been other great finds, and I have to confess that whenever I send off for a cert relating to Breezers Hill/Pennington Street in the mid-1880s I’m always hopeful that it may show a witness or informant named Mary Kelly.

          This is obviously somewhat off-topic, but where do you stand on whether Thick framed Pizer as being Leather Apron?

          To tell you the truth, I don't usually form an opinion about anything. I study, investigate and collect information, and manage it objectively; that is how I am carrying out my work, without the slightest insinuation or tendency that could influence the opinion of ​​whoever might reads me.
          But if you're actually asking me if Thick was involved in some kind of conspiracy, I can tell you that's not my feeling.

          Although I'm halfway through the book (finished Eddowes so far) I won't move on to MJK until I go back over everything I've done since the beginning—correct, complete, and re-edit the content, as well as spelling, grammar, and harmony. of reading—which will take me no less than six more months. But once I get started on MJK I'll have to dive deep into the fascinating Breezers Hill/Pennington Street investigation you all are doing, which I'm looking forward to go into.

          By the way, talking about Thick, i found his grave this week, I'll try to get some pictures soon.

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          • #50
            Nice work Jose, I will need to read it carefully and the comments by Debs,Gary and Chris, to see if I have left anything out in the chapter on Mary Ann in Inside Bucks Row.
            Will be adding a link to the book to this thread, people should see your work.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Steve Blomer View Post
              Nice work Jose, I will need to read it carefully and the comments by Debs,Gary and Chris, to see if I have left anything out in the chapter on Mary Ann in Inside Bucks Row.
              Will be adding a link to the book to this thread, people should see your work.

              Currently I believe that there is no one more qualified than you about Nichols, I would be very happy if you find something here that can be useful for your excellent work. I will try to draw a chronological axis so that the information can be accessed immediately without having to read all the dramatic content, which I think will be very useful.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post
                A look at Shelden's books explains things. In his original book he says Edward John was born in Camberwell in 1865 or 1866, which is what the 1881 census indicates.
                Just a bit more on this point.

                In 1871 all three children just have the vague place of birth "London".

                In 1881 Edward John has Camberwell (as Shelden says) and the next two have Walworth.

                In 1891 (at 8 Maydwell Street, North Camberwell), Edward again has Camberwell.

                In 1901 (at 1 Upton Villa, Upton Road, Bexley), Edward has Peckham.

                (Edit to add: Edward died in 1908, and details from his death certificate are given by Shelden, as is information from the censuses above.)

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post

                  Just a bit more on this point.

                  In 1871 all three children just have the vague place of birth "London".

                  In 1881 Edward John has Camberwell (as Shelden says) and the next two have Walworth.

                  In 1891 (at 8 Maydwell Street, North Camberwell), Edward again has Camberwell.

                  In 1901 (at 1 Upton Villa, Upton Road, Bexley), Edward has Peckham.

                  (Edit to add: Edward died in 1908, and details from his death certificate are given by Shelden, as is information from the censuses above.)

                  Just found this: baptism August 9, 1868; birth date July 4, 1866 (as Shelden said); address baptism record 131 Trafalgar Street.

                  Chris, do you think that between 17 Kirby Street and 131 Trafalgar St they could have been living in another address in Camberwell?
                  Attached Files

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Jose Oranto View Post


                    Just found this, birth date July 4, 1866 (as Shelden said) and address 131 Trafalgar Street
                    Thanks - I did post that a bit earlier in the thread actually, having followed the clue in Shelden:
                    https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-...219#post591219

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post

                      Thanks - I did post that a bit earlier in the thread actually, having followed the clue in Shelden:
                      https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-...219#post591219
                      I'm definitely lost... haha

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Jose Oranto View Post

                        I'm definitely lost... haha
                        I shouldn't worry too much. Yesterday I ordered Alice's birth certificate, thinking it would be worth clarifying the date of her birth (December according to Rubenhold, but earlier as indicated by her age in the census). This morning I noticed that you had already posted it ...

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post

                          I shouldn't worry too much. Yesterday I ordered Alice's birth certificate, thinking it would be worth clarifying the date of her birth (December according to Rubenhold, but earlier as indicated by her age in the census). This morning I noticed that you had already posted it ...

                          ​​​​​​There is no annual membership for GRO? ha ha
                          Today I just received William Thick birth certificate and waiting for the death certificates of his two young daughters that should arrive today as well. I don't even want to think about the money I've spent on certificates. I knew Thick's date of birth, but I'm starting to not trust anything if I don't see the original source.

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                          • #58
                            Thanks to Jose for sending me the death certificate of Polly's brother Frederic(k) to upload:

                            FredericWalkerDeath.jpg

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Jose Oranto View Post


                              Just found this: baptism August 9, 1868; birth date July 4, 1866 (as Shelden said); address baptism record 131 Trafalgar Street.

                              Chris, do you think that between 17 Kirby Street and 131 Trafalgar St they could have been living in another address in Camberwell?
                              Jose, I have found nothing to suggest tgat they lived at another address between Kirby and Trafalgar, but of course that is in no way conclusive.
                              What in particularly makes you wonder.
                              I am currently reworking my own chapter on Mary, using and crediting much in this thread.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Steve Blomer View Post

                                Jose, I have found nothing to suggest tgat they lived at another address between Kirby and Trafalgar, but of course that is in no way conclusive.
                                What in particularly makes you wonder.
                                I am currently reworking my own chapter on Mary, using and crediting much in this thread.
                                I think Jose's comment was based on the information about the places of birth given for Edward John (Camberwell or Peckham) summarised in the post by me that he was replying to. It's clearest in 1881, when Edward is said to have been born in Peckham but the younger children (born at Trafalgar Street) have Walworth, implying Edward was born somewhere other than Trafalgar Street.

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