Mary Ann's Background

[Jose Oranto]

I think these are the birth certificates that have not been posted before in the thread:

Mary Ann Nichols
William Nichols
Edward Walker
Eliza Sara Nichols
Henry Alfred Nichols

[Jose Oranto]

Jose, I have found nothing to suggest tgat they lived at another address between Kirby and Trafalgar, but of course that is in no way conclusive.
What in particularly makes you wonder.
I am currently reworking my own chapter on Mary, using and crediting much in this thread.

Hi Steven

As Chris said, it is not entirely clear, although I must say that I will write in my book 'Trafalgar St' as a fact, although I will clarify it in a footnote.

[Chris Phillips]

Thanks Chris. I can't remember why we don't have Edward John's birth certificate, though apparently it's because he's not in GRO (I just checked).

Yes - apparently his birth wasn't registered, so we have only the later baptism entry.

[Jose Oranto]

I think Jose's comment was based on the information about the places of birth given for Edward John (Camberwell or Peckham) summarised in the post by me that he was replying to. It's clearest in 1881, when Edward is said to have been born in Peckham but the younger children (born at Trafalgar Street) have Walworth, implying Edward was born somewhere other than Trafalgar Street.

Thanks Chris. I can't remember why we don't have Edward John's birth certificate, though apparently it's because he's not in GRO (I just checked).

I will post here all birth and death certificates together for future reference

[Chris Phillips]

Jose, I have found nothing to suggest tgat they lived at another address between Kirby and Trafalgar, but of course that is in no way conclusive.
What in particularly makes you wonder.
I am currently reworking my own chapter on Mary, using and crediting much in this thread.

I think Jose's comment was based on the information about the places of birth given for Edward John (Camberwell or Peckham) summarised in the post by me that he was replying to. It's clearest in 1881, when Edward is said to have been born in Peckham but the younger children (born at Trafalgar Street) have Walworth, implying Edward was born somewhere other than Trafalgar Street.

[Steve Blomer]

Just found this: baptism August 9, 1868; birth date July 4, 1866 (as Shelden said); address baptism record 131 Trafalgar Street.

Chris, do you think that between 17 Kirby Street and 131 Trafalgar St they could have been living in another address in Camberwell?

Jose, I have found nothing to suggest tgat they lived at another address between Kirby and Trafalgar, but of course that is in no way conclusive.
What in particularly makes you wonder.
I am currently reworking my own chapter on Mary, using and crediting much in this thread.

[Chris Phillips]

Thanks to Jose for sending me the death certificate of Polly's brother Frederic(k) to upload:

FredericWalkerDeath.jpg

[Jose Oranto]

I shouldn't worry too much. Yesterday I ordered Alice's birth certificate, thinking it would be worth clarifying the date of her birth (December according to Rubenhold, but earlier as indicated by her age in the census). This morning I noticed that you had already posted it ...

There is no annual membership for GRO? ha ha
Today I just received William Thick birth certificate and waiting for the death certificates of his two young daughters that should arrive today as well. I don't even want to think about the money I've spent on certificates. I knew Thick's date of birth, but I'm starting to not trust anything if I don't see the original source.

[Chris Phillips]

I'm definitely lost... haha

I shouldn't worry too much. Yesterday I ordered Alice's birth certificate, thinking it would be worth clarifying the date of her birth (December according to Rubenhold, but earlier as indicated by her age in the census). This morning I noticed that you had already posted it ...

[Jose Oranto]

Thanks - I did post that a bit earlier in the thread actually, having followed the clue in Shelden:
https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-...219#post591219

I'm definitely lost... haha

[Chris Phillips]

Just found this, birth date July 4, 1866 (as Shelden said) and address 131 Trafalgar Street

Thanks - I did post that a bit earlier in the thread actually, having followed the clue in Shelden:

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-victims/mary-ann-polly-nichols/591175-mary-ann-s-background?p=591219#post591219

[Jose Oranto]

Just a bit more on this point.

In 1871 all three children just have the vague place of birth "London".

In 1881 Edward John has Camberwell (as Shelden says) and the next two have Walworth.

In 1891 (at 8 Maydwell Street, North Camberwell), Edward again has Camberwell.

In 1901 (at 1 Upton Villa, Upton Road, Bexley), Edward has Peckham.

(Edit to add: Edward died in 1908, and details from his death certificate are given by Shelden, as is information from the censuses above.)

Just found this: baptism August 9, 1868; birth date July 4, 1866 (as Shelden said); address baptism record 131 Trafalgar Street.

Chris, do you think that between 17 Kirby Street and 131 Trafalgar St they could have been living in another address in Camberwell?

[Chris Phillips]

A look at Shelden's books explains things. In his original book he says Edward John was born in Camberwell in 1865 or 1866, which is what the 1881 census indicates.

Just a bit more on this point.

In 1871 all three children just have the vague place of birth "London".

In 1881 Edward John has Camberwell (as Shelden says) and the next two have Walworth.

In 1891 (at 8 Maydwell Street, North Camberwell), Edward again has Camberwell.

In 1901 (at 1 Upton Villa, Upton Road, Bexley), Edward has Peckham.

(Edit to add: Edward died in 1908, and details from his death certificate are given by Shelden, as is information from the censuses above.)

[Jose Oranto]

Nice work Jose, I will need to read it carefully and the comments by Debs,Gary and Chris, to see if I have left anything out in the chapter on Mary Ann in Inside Bucks Row.
Will be adding a link to the book to this thread, people should see your work.

Currently I believe that there is no one more qualified than you about Nichols, I would be very happy if you find something here that can be useful for your excellent work. I will try to draw a chronological axis so that the information can be accessed immediately without having to read all the dramatic content, which I think will be very useful.

[Steve Blomer]

Nice work Jose, I will need to read it carefully and the comments by Debs,Gary and Chris, to see if I have left anything out in the chapter on Mary Ann in Inside Bucks Row.
Will be adding a link to the book to this thread, people should see your work.