Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A new record of Joseph Flemming gives his whereabouts at the time of the murders

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • A new record of Joseph Flemming gives his whereabouts at the time of the murders

    A new mention of Joseph Flemming in 1888
    In the "Cast of Thousands" I wrote:
    "His birth was registered at Bethnal Green in the 2nd Quarter (April to June) of 1859 (Volume 1c page 254)."
    I have found what I am pretty confident is a previously unknown record of Joseph Flemming (the spelling in this source) and, crucially, it relates to the very period of the Whitechapel murders. It is to be found in the Religious Creed Register for the parish of St Matthew, Bethnal Green, showing that between the dates mentioned in the record, Flemming was in the Bethnal Green Workhouse.
    The record reads as follows:
    Date of admission: 15 October 1888
    Name, Christian and Surname: Flemming, Joseph
    When born: 1859
    From whence admitted: Left Strand W.H.
    Religious Creed: E.C. (English Church)
    Name of informant: Self
    By whose order admitted: H.D.
    Date of discharge: 9 January 1889
    Having researched Flemming pretty heavily for the Cast of Thousands and the Mary Kelly book, I am near certain there was no other man named Joseph Flemming born in 1859 living in Bethnal Green at this period.
    If this is the same Flemming as was involved with Kelly - and I am reasonably confident that it is - then, importantly it tells us where he was from mid October 1888 onwards and where he had been immediately before (Strand W.H.)
    I assume this means he had been staying in the Strand Workhouse (W.H.) so would be interested to know anything more about that institution.
    Chris S

  • #2
    Here is the original:

    Comment


    • #3
      The first entry on the page, verifying the year:

      Comment


      • #4
        His previous whereabouts may well refer to the "Strand Union Workhouse" which is the very one in Cleveland Street about which the current petition is concerned - even more incentive to save it!!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Great finds Chris ! Thanks so much for sharing this.

          I suppose this puts him on the proverbial back burner in terms of suspect worthiness for the Kelly murder, wouldn't you think Chris ?

          Yes indeed it is even greater incentive for those to sign the petition.

          You are something else,amigo.
          To Join JTR Forums :
          Contact [email protected]

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi How
            Thanks for that
            I agree with you about the Kelly murder but need to get it clear in my mind the physical placing of Bethnal Green WH in relation to Dorset Street
            Chris

            Comment


            • #7
              Outstanding, Chris

              Originally posted by Chris Scott View Post
              the physical placing of Bethnal Green WH in relation to Dorset Street
              BethnalG1885ver2.JPG

              Crude guide using the 1885 map.
              Left corner is Dorset St approx.
              Top is Bethnal Green Workhouse, which is almost to Victoria Park.

              Roy

              Comment


              • #8
                Excellent find Chris.

                A couple of questions though,
                Workhouse protocol, size of the fence, possible boltholes...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks guys - especially for the map, Roy.
                  One question... on the map you posted Roy, what would be the distance, as the crow files, from Victoria Park to Dorset Street? Im not sure of the scale on that map
                  Chris

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Chris, great work here!
                    I will pm you something that might be relevant here, later on when I get more timehat's ok.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      many thanks Debs
                      I look forward to that
                      Chris

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have also found this brief mention of Fleming in the index of:
                        BEBG/274/007
                        Register of Lunatics
                        Register of Orders of Removal from and to other Unions
                        18 Sep 1889 to 21 Feb 1894
                        But at the moment that is all it is, a mention. The associated record 90 I have not yet traced.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          BethnalDistance.jpg

                          Chris, the straight line distance from Whites Row Car Park to Waterloo Gardens, Bethnal Green is 2.3 Kilometers.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Many thanks Roy

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Chris, your pm inbox is full.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X