2 - Will The Real Mary Kelly ?....Chris Scott

[Brad McGinnis]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, you arent going to agree.
Sam you always seem to be doing good posting. I enjoy your stuff.
Stan my friend, you are Dale Carnegies worst night mare!
I just want to say I met Stan at the '04 Baltimore conference. He and I with some other guy at our table came in 2nd on Ripper Trivia. The winning table had 10 attendees against us three, and we were total strangers. He's a most knowledgable guy on things ripper, baseball, and a number of subjects. He posts like a pitbull though. Stan, I heard you got married, and I wish you well. Hope you're as happy as Debbie and I are.
You two are'nt gonna agree, but lets lose the personal attacks.
Even so this is a great thread. The true story of MJK I feel will maybe point out a suspect due to her total destruction. This one is'nt a rip, its an obliteration, which usually follows certain perambiters which I feel hav'nt been explored.
I don't live in Britian, so I can't fully explore my suspects and since I work in medicine and also raise beef, goats and horses, chances are Ill never get a chance to fully persue my suspects.
But Sam and Stan keep arguing, just be civil. Brad

[Stan Russo]

Brad,

I agree with you - I do post like a pitbull and am truthful or opinionated to a fault. I think that there are some major wrongs in the current field of Ripperology and I try to expose them. If I don't, I almost feel like nobody will, because the atmosphere has become too friendly.

I am not for personal attacks, and I have stated numerous times that I am not attacking a person, but attacking their philosophy and actions. They almost always take it personally. That's on them.

I also don't care when I'm attacked. Sometimes I deserve it and hope i can learn something from it. Its those who can't learn anything or evolve in their own mindset who are the detriment to this field and I will repeat that I believe people who have the closed ideology that this case will never be solved have as much of an agenda as those who manipulate material to fit certain suspects. I believe that agenda is to keep the case alive to be a part of something they found too hard to pursue and based upon the failure to accept failure.

Now sit me at a table and I will say the exat same thing, as we talked about at length in 2004, but for some reason it comes across nicer. I don't know why, because its the same material.

[Brad McGinnis]

Hey its geat to hear from you Stan! I agree with you, nothing in this case is written in stone or it would have been solved years ago. I too hope for something from a great Grandmothers attic or an estate sale to provide another possible way to go.
I remember at the 2004 convention I was warned that you were a wannabe author and a nut, because at the 2002 convention (which I did'nt attend) you were proposing a book with a summary of all the possible suspects and a known bio of them. Well, you did that, and got it published.
When we chatted at the bar, I was most impressed about how a guy from Manhatten knew the stats of Roberto Clemente, my childhood hero, a western Pa. icon, but little credited in the rest of the country.
I think we both agreed Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame.
I quit paying attention to baseball after the last strike. But your knowledge of the sport prior to that is on a par with your Ripper knowledge. You recall details that I tend to forget. I think we also chatted who had the best outfield arm. I'd always go with Clemete but no doubt How would go with Johnny Callison. He had a rocket arm too, but living in Philly he ate alot of those delicious cheesesteaks. When he went to Philly, he could probably throw the ball 400 feet on the fly. After all those cheese steaks his arteries were so clogged he probably could'nt hit his feet. But damn those cheese steaks are good.
Keep posting my friend, and lets all keep an open mind.

[Stan Russo]

Brad,

good hearing from you too. It's been awhile.

Not to get off topic but the best outfield arm has to be Dwight Evans, from Boston. A gosh darn cannon.

Now back on topic. My philosophy is simple, there were people who said you couldn't cure polio, and then someone did. There is an answer to everything. It just takes a person with determination to go out and find it, in spite of the masses saying it will not be found. To me, that makes it more worthwhile. If everyone said it could be done, it probably wouldn't interest me. I guess that's why solved serial murders do not really interest me.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Brad,

nothing in this case is written in stone or it would have been solved years ago. I too hope for something from a great Grandmothers attic or an estate sale to provide another possible way to go.

I couldn't agree more with you, or Stan, on those two points. Until the latter happens, however, we are somewhat constrained by the evidence available. The good news is that, even there, it's possible to read the evidence afresh and come up with potential new insights... within reason, of course!

[Stan Russo]

Sam,

I agree that new insights are invaluable and the only way the case will progress. This is why I was surprised when you said it could possibly be another name and then when I said I had info that it was you recoiled and said it was highly unlikely.

Another strong possibility is that 'Morganstone' is a made up name, made up by Kelly who wanted to hide where she was in 1885. Most people reject that possibility and grasp at the same old straws that never reach the invaluable soda on the bottom of the cup.

Once again, I never wanted to attack you personally, just what I believed to be your philosophy. My philosophy on the case is worthy of attack as well and I do not take things personal. Feel free to fire away at my ideas on the case and maybe you'll convince me of something better than what I believe. That's all I was trying to do.

[Natalie Severn]

Just a thought here.If Mary had been on intimate terms with this man isn"t it a bit unlikely that she would have referred to him by his surname only? Is"nt it just as likely that the man"s name was Morgan Stern or Morgan Stone and that Joe Barnett had somehow had sound confusion over the whole name/names and had created an ellipsis over the two names when he repeated them ?

[Sam Flynn]

He might simply have forgotten, Nats, or perhaps Mary never told him ("I lived with Mr Morganstone...", for example).

[Lyn Resthal]

Just a thought here.If Mary had been on intimate terms with this man isn"t it a bit unlikely that she would have referred to him by his surname only? Is"nt it just as likely that the man"s name was Morgan Stern or Morgan Stone and that Joe Barnett had somehow had sound confusion over the whole name/names and had created an ellipsis over the two names when he repeated them ?

Hi Norma,

Bearing in mind that I'm only familiar with the ins and outs of the 'poorer London's' deaf community from 1920 onwards - and my own family in particular - based solely on recollections passed on to me by family members or the written accounts of other deaf people they closely associated with, but it was fairly typical for them to refer to males by their surname rather than first or full name, even those they were on intimate terms with. For example, the written recollections of a friend and co-worker of my grandfather, titled: Burt Thro The Eyes of A.F. Dimmock refers to my grandfather throughout by surname only, explaining in the second sentence, "he was just Burt to me".

Both of my grandparents were born during the early/mid-1890s. I recall that my grandmother often referred to my grandfather as "Burt" when talking about him - she once explained to me, "that's how I knew him at school", but I wonder whether it wasn't also because that was the name he was known by pretty much throughout his life. She also almost always referred to male friends and acquaintances at the local deaf club we attended during my childhood and teens by just their surname as well, long after she had moved to Portsmouth. Although females were generally referred to by either first name (if young) or Mrs. Such-and-Such (if middle aged or beyond.) I confess, though, I've no idea how typical the use of surname only would have been amongst non-deaf.

Off topic.. but just a quick thank you for the delightful photos of the house in Fournier Street!

Lyn

[Natalie Severn]

Well Lyn and Sam,
Both of you could obviously be right.Also it may be worth reminding ourselves that Mary was half cut quite a bit of the time from several accounts---I really wonder if her speech was always that clear and distinct?

[Mike Covell]

I don't know why I never got this book earlier, but I purchased it online recently and read it over a couple of days. It was a great read. Chris's ability to sort the wheat from the chaff was not only interesting but inspiring. The work and attention paid not to just MJK but to the other people in her life was amazing. Really looking forward to the new revised and updated edition.

[Howard Brown]

Bump Up
To the first person who reads this :
Please post the words "bump up" so we know its accessible.
Thanks.

[Gumshoe]

Bump Up.

The problem, Mishter Brown, is not in posting. It is in accessing the earlier posts in the other thread.

[Howard Brown]

Gumdrop:

I can see them all.
Hmm....

I wonder if anyone has tried accessing them through the "archive" ( found at the bottom right hand side of this page) ?

[Howard Brown]

Try this folks :

1. Go to the bottom of the page and click on "archive"
2. When the page comes up, click on The Victims
3. Then click on the 7th entry and the archived format of this thread should appear....all 105 posts on one page.