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Liverpool MJK's Whitechapel Connection

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    The other witness was Charlotte Fitzmaurice and she and Pateman also witnessed the previous marriage in the register.
    Thanks, Gary. She is another one I noted down. She witnessed a few during 86/7 and must have been part of the missionary team. Another is William Fulcher Love??
    Charlotte was witness to a couple who both lived at 27 Dorset Street in June 87 when they married.

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    • #17
      Debs,

      Did you see this post I made a while ago?:

      Here's an odd thing.

      I was aimlessly Googling the name 'Valks' and came across a CofE marriage in STGITE on the 18th December, 1897 between a Jane Hannah Valks and a Johannes Romjin.

      The odd thing about it is that the two witnesses apparently had the same name: the first signed her name as Rebecca Maria Turner and the second, Rebecca Turner, made her mark.

      Odd? It gets odder.

      The next marriage in the register, two days later, was between a Joseph Morris and an Emily Cecilia Wiseman. One of their witnesses was also called Rebecca Turner. She made her mark.

      Some time later a note was added to say that the name Morris should have read Morris-SATCHELL.


      Strange, don't you think?

      Gary

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      • #18
        Just noting interesting (to me) ones

        In Sept 1888 he witnessed a marriage between George William Lewis and Sarah Ann Pike. The couple lived at 6 George Street at the time, which seems to have been a lodging house. I haven't come across this 'Sarah Lewis' from Spitalfields before as far as I recall.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
          Debs,

          Did you see this post I made a while ago?:

          Here's an odd thing.

          I was aimlessly Googling the name 'Valks' and came across a CofE marriage in STGITE on the 18th December, 1897 between a Jane Hannah Valks and a Johannes Romjin.

          The odd thing about it is that the two witnesses apparently had the same name: the first signed her name as Rebecca Maria Turner and the second, Rebecca Turner, made her mark.

          Odd? It gets odder.

          The next marriage in the register, two days later, was between a Joseph Morris and an Emily Cecilia Wiseman. One of their witnesses was also called Rebecca Turner. She made her mark.

          Some time later a note was added to say that the name Morris should have read Morris-SATCHELL.


          Strange, don't you think?

          Gary
          I didn't see your original post, Gary but when I was going through this register I wondered about a woman who kept making 'her mark' as a witness who was named Carey. I thought she may also be a part of the missionary push to rush these sinners, shacked up together in lodging houses in the streets we know had bad reputations, in to a marriage. The fact that she couldn't sign her own name put me off that idea but thinking on now after your post, there's no reason why she shouldn't if she was religious enough and backed what was going on?

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          • #20
            Interesting. Perhaps lodging house residents themselves who earned a few coppers identifying likely couples and encouraging them to do the 'right thing'?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
              Interesting. Perhaps lodging house residents themselves who earned a few coppers identifying likely couples and encouraging them to do the 'right thing'?
              Yes, could be.
              Pateman had a fair few from 9 and 35 Dorset Street, 19 George Street, 36 F & D and 8 Thrawl St.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                Yes, could be.
                Pateman had a fair few from 9 and 35 Dorset Street, 19 George Street, 36 F & D and 8 Thrawl St.
                I think the City Mission was non-denominational? Have you come across anything similar in the Catholic records? Or were they a bit more particular about who they allowed as witnesses.

                I've just remember the young lad who witnessed Poll and Foggy's nuptials. He was connected to the church, though (if we identified him correctly).

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                  I think the City Mission was non-denominational? Have you come across anything similar in the Catholic records? Or were they a bit more particular about who they allowed as witnesses.

                  I've just remember the young lad who witnessed Poll and Foggy's nuptials. He was connected to the church, though (if we identified him correctly).
                  Not that I remember, but then I wasn't really looking. Wasn't there a man who lived at the lodge house of St M and M's Catholic Church who witnessed a few there?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                    Hi Debs,

                    I was thinking along the same lines. A bit of pressure, maybe, perhaps the defraying of some small expenses?

                    Gary
                    London City Mission

                    "Extracts from Committee Meeting Minutes:

                    14 January 1889: Charles Pateman was granted expenses incurred by him in rescuing the fallen with whom he meets in the common Lodging Houses in Spitalfields."

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                      In Sept 1888 he witnessed a marriage between George William Lewis and Sarah Ann Pike. The couple lived at 6 George Street at the time, which seems to have been a lodging house. I haven't come across this 'Sarah Lewis' from Spitalfields before as far as I recall.
                      I'm quite fascinated with this new Sarah Lewis.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                        I'm quite fascinated with this new Sarah Lewis.
                        Debs,

                        Is Lewis the witness another mystery woman, then?

                        Gary

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Isabeau View Post
                          London City Mission

                          "Extracts from Committee Meeting Minutes:

                          14 January 1889: Charles Pateman was granted expenses incurred by him in rescuing the fallen with whom he meets in the common Lodging Houses in Spitalfields."
                          Thanks for that, I.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                            Debs,

                            Is Lewis the witness another mystery woman, then?

                            Gary
                            Gary, it's not that she's a mystery but she wasn't specifically identified until quite recently when the late Chris Scott was buying a replica Miller's Court sign from an online seller and the seller happened to mention that he was a descendant of Sarah Lewis. Chris wrote an article for Ripperologist giving details of Sarah Lewis of the Stoodley Lewis family whose German partner took on her surname rather than the other way around.
                            That family seemed to have spent their lives in the Bethnal Green area and no obvious tie to Great Pearl Street or Spitalfields (as far as Chris's research went). I'm not saying the ID was wrong, but I know I'm not alone in not thinking it's worth doing further research on other women who may fit the bill...who seem to be quite scarce.
                            This one interested me because Sarah and her new husband George are apparently one of the Spitalfields lodging house class couples mentioned by SF who were encouraged to tie the knot. I just get a feeling about her that seems right somehow..

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                            • #29
                              With her family in Sycamore Street (Old Street) in 1871 by the looks of it.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                                With her family in Sycamore Street (Old Street) in 1871 by the looks of it.
                                Yes, that's her. By the mid 80's her father was a widower and living in the lodging houses of Whitechapel.

                                I think I will start a new thread so we can place information there to build up a bigger picture.

                                http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....696#post347696

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