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Liverpool MJK's Whitechapel Connection

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  • Liverpool MJK's Whitechapel Connection

    The marriage record of Liverpool MJK's brother's niece, Margaret Ellen Rawlinson (http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=17694 Post#3) puts her living on Thrawl Street in 1887.

    The Marriage certificate is dated February of that year and the real MJK's timeline puts her on Thrawl Street in April.

    No. 5 Thrawl is also the same address as a Polly Nichols witness.

    Howard Brown has kindly supplied a map of Whitechapel, on the above Jtrforums banner, with Thrawl Street on it. It's two blocks north of Whitechapel Road betwen the murders marked 1, 2 and 7, 7 being Mary Jane Kelly.

    P.S. Margaret Rawlinson is in Liverpool in 1881 with her grandparents, (on Horatio St. which was at the top of Scotland Rd. in L'pool MJK's neighbourhood).
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Charles Pateman, Curate, The City Missionary, London City Mission

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    • #3
      Charles Pateman

      Electoral Rolls

      Years 1885, 1887, 1888, 1890

      County or Borough Tower Hamlets

      Ward or Division/Constituency St. Mary/Christ Church, Whitechapel

      Street Address 114 Brick Lane

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      • #4
        Originally posted by San Fran View Post
        Charles Pateman, Curate, The City Missionary, London City Mission

        A minor point: it wasn't Charles Pateman who was being described as the curate of Christchurch, but the person who officiated at the ceremony - W. Peacey (?).

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
          A minor point: it wasn't Charles Pateman who was being described as the curate of Christchurch, but the person who officiated at the ceremony - W. Peacey (?).
          That's right, Gary. It's clearer in other entries in the marriage registers for 86/7 where both names appear that 'curate' is describing Peacey.
          Pateman did witness quite a few marriages at this church in Spitalfields just as mentioned in one newspaper the city missionary was quoted in. I wonder if he applied the same sort of pressure on couples to marry as someone did to Foggy and Poll from the Catholic Church after they were found living in sin at the time of the 1893 Catholic census!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
            That's right, Gary. It's clearer in other entries in the marriage registers for 86/7 where both names appear that 'curate' is describing Peacey.
            Pateman did witness quite a few marriages at this church in Spitalfields just as mentioned in one newspaper the city missionary was quoted in. I wonder if he applied the same sort of pressure on couples to marry as someone did to Foggy and Poll from the Catholic Church after they were found living in sin at the time of the 1893 Catholic census!
            Hi Debs,

            I was thinking along the same lines. A bit of pressure, maybe, perhaps the defraying of some small expenses?

            Gary

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            • #7
              Hi Debra and Gary,

              The marriage registers can be searched for witnesses?

              Can we then have a list of all the women Charles Pateman "rescued" by marriage? He said he "rescued" MJK's friend.

              I believe the newspapers quoted him as saying he "rescued" upwards of 200.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                Hi Debs,

                I was thinking along the same lines. A bit of pressure, maybe, perhaps the defraying of some small expenses?

                Gary
                I hadn't thought about the church perhaps making it an affordable option for them to marry, Gary, but yes, you are probably right.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Isabeau View Post
                  Hi Debra and Gary,

                  The marriage registers can be searched for witnesses?

                  Can we then have a list of all the women Charles Pateman "rescued" by marriage? He said he "rescued" MJK's friend.

                  I believe the newspapers quoted him as saying he "rescued" upwards of 200.
                  Hi ISanFranMayBeau

                  The registers for that Spitalfields church (or any other)can be trawled page by page to see who the witnesses at each entry are.
                  In the registers starting 1884 and ending 1902, Pateman's name first appears on page 5 in Dec 84. His name pops up in at least one entry every half dozen pages or so after that but I haven't looked past 87 yet.
                  Another name that comes up a lot as a witness is a James John Underwood. He seems to have more entries than Pateman, in fact.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                    Hi ISanFranMayBeau
                    It was pretty obvious, wasn't it?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                      It was pretty obvious, wasn't it?
                      I don't understand the need, to be honest, Gary. The story of Mary Jane Wilson seems quite interesting if you can follow all the cloak and dagger stuff, so why not just come on here and discuss it honestly? If the researcher already knows all the answers and that is why they are drip feeding this cyclically then I suggest they just write a book or article that we can all enjoy!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                        I don't understand the need to be honest, Gary. The story of Mary Jane Wilson seems quite interesting if you can follow all the cloak and dagger stuff, so why not just come on here and discuss it honestly? If the researcher already knows all the answers and that is why they are drip feeding this cyclically then I suggest they just write a book or article that we can all enjoy!
                        A summary would be useful for those like me who haven't been following as closely as they might.

                        San Fran?

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                        • #13
                          Charles Pateman at Spitalfields weddings

                          Pateman was witness to a Miller's Court wedding in Feb 1886 when Thomas Hickey, a 24 year old labourer of 10 Miller's Court married Lillias Emma Collyer, 19, and of the same address.

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                          • #14
                            James John and John Underwood

                            James John Underwood also witnessed many marriages in this church at Spitalfields. In April 1887, John Underwood, City Missionary, married Elizabeth Alice Sams both of Church St. John gave his father's name as James John Uderwood, a clerk, and the witness was the James John Underwood who signed many other entries.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                              Pateman was witness to a Miller's Court wedding in Feb 1886 when Thomas Hickey, a 24 year old labourer of 10 Miller's Court married Lillias Emma Collyer, 19, and of the same address.
                              The other witness was Charlotte Fitzmaurice and she and Pateman also witnessed the previous marriage in the register.

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