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Liverpool MJK's Whitechapel Connection

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  • San Fran
    replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    I see Daniel and Margaret were living at 93, Cleveland Street in 1891.
    If you look at her whole story, she was on Horatio Street in Liverpool in 1881, went to London where her mother, sister, and grandparents were in the West End, and where her sister married Rosalie Ochse’s son, somehow ended up on Thrawl Street in 1887, and then was back in the West End in 1891.

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by San Fran View Post
    Margaret Rawlinson who married Daniel Reardon is Rosalie Ochse's daughter-in-law's sister. Margaret's sister Elizabeth Ann Ethel Rawlinson married Oscar Bernstein/Ochse/Osborn in 1886.

    The Sarah Lewis from the list that Debra identified as witness Sarah Lewis cannot be the "friend" of Mary Jane Kelly that the City Missionary said he 'rescued' because Sarah Lewis said she didn't know Mary.

    Could the 'friend' be Margaret Rawlinson/Reardon?
    I see Daniel and Margaret were living at 93, Cleveland Street in 1891.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    26 and 27, Dorset Street and the properties in Miller’s Court seem to have been of particular concern to the do-gooders:

    EC61DA93-7F87-4676-A086-A7F48092ACCD.jpeg

    That was in Feb, 1886 (ELO).

    Bear in mind that this includes John McCarthy’s own home.

    Leave a comment:


  • Anna Morris
    replied
    Originally posted by San Fran View Post
    Doesn't this lend more credibility to City Missionary Charles Pateman's claim that he knew Mary Jane Kelly? I know there are some that doubt the words of various witnesses.

    It looks like he might have specifically targeted 13 Miller's Court while they were there after the murder.
    I once noted that in comparing what we know of single woman tenants in Millers Court in 1888, to the 1891 census, the latter seemed to show many more couples or families. I have loosely opined that John McCarthy was scared straight after Mary's demise but maybe missionaries did make an extra effort st this location.

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  • San Fran
    replied
    Originally posted by San Fran View Post
    Don't forget Daniel and Margaret in 1887!
    Margaret Rawlinson who married Daniel Reardon is Rosalie Ochse's daughter-in-law's sister. Margaret's sister Elizabeth Ann Ethel Rawlinson married Oscar Bernstein/Ochse/Osborn in 1886.

    The Sarah Lewis from the list that Debra identified as witness Sarah Lewis cannot be the "friend" of Mary Jane Kelly that the City Missionary said he 'rescued' because Sarah Lewis said she didn't know Mary.

    Could the 'friend' be Margaret Rawlinson/Reardon?

    Leave a comment:


  • San Fran
    replied
    And this is the last one I transcribed; Less than a year after the murder of MJK No. 13 Miller's Court is home to a newly married couple:

    28 Oct 89 John James Burnham and Catherine Marshall,
    13 Miller's Court, Dorset St.
    Doesn't this lend more credibility to City Missionary Charles Pateman's claim that he knew Mary Jane Kelly? I know there are some that doubt the words of various witnesses.

    It looks like he might have specifically targeted 13 Miller's Court while they were there after the murder.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Kate Marshall

    Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
    Gareth

    I know I'd have thought twice about crossing her.
    She had no qualms about chivving men. This is what she said at her 1895 Old Bailey trial for wounding her 'husband' Christopher Hayes:

    I done it; I told you I would do it; I done it with a pin; I took that pin, and dug it into his face as hard as I could; if it had been a jib" (a term for a knife), "I would have done just the same"—in the station, before she was charged, she said, "I wish to Christ he would die; I do not mind doing the rope for him; I dug it down; I wish I had pushed it through his heart; I meant killing him; I confess to striking you with a knife; nobody see me use it"—when charged she said, "God send it may kill him; I wish it was murder; I should be glad to swing."

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  • San Fran
    replied
    Don't forget Daniel and Margaret in 1887!
    Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
    Here is a list of 81 of the couples whose marriages were witnessed by Charles Pateman, apparently one of a group of City Missionaries who worked amongst the people who lived in the lodging houses of Spitalfields....

    18 Dec 85 Edward Cox and Ann Rice, Flower & Dean St.
    24 Dec Albert Edward Eggar and Rose Robinson, 2 New Court, Dorset St.
    11 Jan 85 Jame Walker and Ada Newland, Mileer's Court
    2 Feb 85 Charles Chadd and Mary Ann Sullivan, 32 Flower & Dean St.
    26 Mar Henry Horn and Harriett Anderson, 5 Wentworth St.
    31 Mae 85 John Downing and Mary Gonoghue, 36 Flower & Dean St.
    20 April 85 Joseph George Willmott and Mary Rayner (nee Sullivan) 5 Flower and Dean St.
    21 Apr 85 Jeremiah Mahoney and Mary Ann Jones, 19 George St.
    12 May 85 John Pilton and Minnie Isabel Ducker, 7 Flower & Dean St.
    27 May Alfred Miles and Mary Ann Roblin, 37 Flower & Dean St.
    30 Jun George Brewer nd Mary Ann Pike, 3 George St.
    22 Jul Thomas Charles and Mrgaret Armsworth, Dorset St.
    7 Aug William James Bailey and Elizabeth Linkson, Pedley St.
    28 Sep 85 Thomas Stiles and Ellen Grace Baker, 56 Flower & Dean St.
    28 Sept 85 John Wood and Jane Thompson 20 Thrawl St
    19 Oct 85 William Bull and atilda Pickett, 59 Wentworth St.
    20 Oct 85 William Atkins and Catherine Quibline? nee Kind, 3 Dorset St.
    6 Jan 86 Francis Smith and Alice Cleveland nee Wicks 4 Little Paternoster Row.
    5 Feb 86 John Emanuel Rigney and Ellen Kelso nee Caldwell, 56 Flower and Dean Street
    9 Feb 86 Thomas Hickey and Lillias Emma Collyer, 10 Miller's Court.
    28 Feb 86 Robert Austin and Sarah Cooper nee Terry, 5 Fashion St.
    19 Apr Samuel Joseph Hart and Charlotte Eliza Smith, 5 Fashion St.
    19 Apr John Grant and Sarah Johnson, 36 Flower and Dean St.
    29 Apr John Smith nd Charlotte Young, 5 Fashion St.
    5 May 86 William Carter and Mary Ann Smith, 16 Thrawl St.
    12 Jul 86 John William Twokigg and Mary Emily Deven, 4 Thrawl St.
    4 Aug 86 Matthew Rogers and Jane Barrow, 7 Flower and Dean St.
    6 Aug 86 James Spence and Alice Mitchell, 48 Flower and Dean St.
    30 Aug Richard John Ryder and Elizabeth Dixon, 6 Little Paternoster Row.
    24 Nov 86 John Rine and Eliza Sophia Posha nee Pendlebury, Flower and Dean St.
    1 Dec 86 Henry Martin and Isabella Coley, 42 Thrawl St.
    6 Dec 86 Frederick Bate Heard and Jane Austin, Pearl St.
    14 Dec George Dennis an Martha Sweetman nee Jordan, 27 Thrawl St.
    14 Dec 86 Walter Warren and Bridget Murphy, 31 Fashion St.
    27 Dec John Dawson and Ellen Drew, 26 Thrawl St.
    11 Jan 87 William John Stevens and Emily Savage, 1 New Court, Dorset St.
    26 Jan 87 Henry Walter Bright and Elizabeth Doyle, 17 and 11 Dorset St.
    14 Feb 87 William Norrod and Annie Elizabeth Crathern, 38 Flower and Dean St.
    14 Feb 87 Daniel Reardon and Margaret Ellen Rawlinson, 5 Thrawl Street
    17 Mar 87 Edward Albert White and Eliza Susan Beer, 7 Thrawl St.
    21 Mar 87 John Neill and Emma Hart, 31 Fashion St.
    23 Mar James Jennings and Alice Hodges, 19 Thrawl St.
    25 Apr Alfred James Welch and Ann Griffiths, 5 Thrawl St.
    27 Jul 87 Francis Joseph Shepherd and Louisa Tabitha Devanie, 1 Dale's Place
    21 Sep 87 William Collier and Elizabeth Mary Jennings, 19 Flower and Dean St.
    3 Oct 87 Thomas Rogers and Ellen Sheen, 22.5 Thrawl St.
    17 Oct 87 Robert Stocker and Matilda Dicks, 19 George St.
    24 Oct 87 George Ward and Amelia Snowden, 4 Dorset St.
    31 Oct 87 George Jordan and Louisa Perry, 32 Flower and Dean St.
    31 Oct 87 James Sharman and Blanch Coxon, 48 Wentworth St.
    18 Nov 87 Robert Mackman and Mary Catherine Withborne, 34 Fashion St.
    9 Jan 88 Charles Cook and Matilda Knight, 32 Flower and Dean St.
    12 Jan 88 George Jennings and Fanny Ball, 35 Dorset St.
    30 Jan 88 Patrick Donovoan and Annie Shirnick, 34 Flower and Dean St.
    30 Jan George Clark and Elizabeth Maria Dollery, 34 Flower and Dean St.
    13 Feb 88 Charles Henry Vale and Margaret McCarthy, 18 Thrawl St.
    22 Feb 88 George Robert Durford and Jane Campbell, 32 Flower and Dean St.
    26 Mar 88 George William Galton an Mary Ann Butler, 31 Fashion St.
    6 April 88 John Charles Jutin and Ann Meadows, 9 Dorset St and 18 Thrawl St.
    30 Apr 88 John O'Neill and Flora Edwards, 9 Dorset St.
    14 May 88 Henry Saunderson and Mary Boyd, 6 Little Paternoster Row.
    4 June 88 William Murphy and Margaret Brown, 29 Thrawl St.
    26 Jul 88 John Barnard Dobson and Elizabeth Annie Riches, 59 Wentworth St.
    17 Sept 88 George William Lewis and Sarah Ann Pike 6 George St.
    24 Sept 88 Robert Thompson and Mary Ann Sharman, 31 Lolesworth buildings
    31 Oct 88 Thomas Smith and Martha Whiteing, 17 Dorset St. and 2 Little Paternoster Row.
    5 Nov 88 William Michael Carroll and Louis Elizabeth Kemp, 9 Thrawl St.
    6 Nov 88 William Flemming and Harriet Harris, 9 Thrawl St.
    2 Dec 88 William Clarence Goldsmith and Jessie Selina Strange, 34 Dorset St.
    18 Dec 88 Timothy Mahoney and Emma Kenten, 16 Thrawl St.
    31 Dec 88 George Mitchell and Mary Ann Head, 35 Dorset St.
    17 Jan 89 William Kew and Susan Chote, 19 George St.
    12 Feb 89 Frederick Burgin and Frances Isabella Taylor, 36 Flower and Dean St.
    12 Mar 89 Arthur Morris and Elizabeth Keers, 8 Whites Row
    26 Mar 89 Thomas Holt and Caroline Campion, 35 Dorset St.
    11 April 89 William Benjamin Burnham and Hannah Russell, 56 Flower and Dean St.
    16 Apr 89 John Pearl and Louisa Hillier, 27 Dorset St.
    4 Jun 89 Richard Ashdown and Eliza Maud Mary Hopkins, 19 George St.
    18 Jun 89 George sarah Loosmore and Rebecca Isabella Perry, 35 Dorset St.
    16 July 89 John Lawley and Annie Moyniham, 36 Flower & Dean St.
    15 Oct 89 Alfred George O'Hara and Sophia Eliza Blake, 14 Flower and Dean St.

    And this is the last one I transcribed; Less than a year after the murder of MJK No. 13 Miller's Court is home to a newly married couple:

    28 Oct 89 John James Burnham and Catherine Marshall, 13 Miller's Court, Dorset St.

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Gareth

    I know I'd have thought twice about crossing her.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
    Pretty violent woman, this Kate Marshall.
    Perhaps we've found our Ripper at last

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Thanks for that, JD....

    Pretty violent woman, this Kate Marshall.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jerry Dunlop
    replied
    Kate was serving 18 months starting in April of 1889 for wounding Charlotte Cocklin.

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  • Jerry Dunlop
    replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    Interesting that the last bride on your list was a 'Kate' Marshall.
    I saw that too, Gary. Kate Marshall was living at #3 Dorset Street in April, 1888 and calling Christopher Hayes her husband.

    Nice work on the names, Debs!

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Interesting that the last bride on your list was a 'Kate' Marshall.

    Leave a comment:


  • Debra Arif
    replied
    Thanks Gary, How, Anna. I could make a similar list for James John Underwood. who was connected to the City Mission also and witnessed a large number of marriages but Pateman worked around addresses more familiar to us.

    Originally posted by Anna Morris
    PLUS as everybody probably knows I have a deep interest in the Mrs. Lewis/Mrs. Kennedy tales of a creepy man who asked them to follow. For purposes of research I always have it somewhere in my mind that these two women--I do believe they are different women though some do not agree--are connected some way and I wonder if the Mrs. Lewis who spent the night in Millers Court might have sometimes been an unfortunate.*

    It did not seem to me that the Mrs. Lewis of Great Pearl Street was likely to be an unfortunate at any time.
    Anna, I also had the feeling that Sarah Lewis, the witness, may also have been an unfortunate at times and may herself have been out soliciting when she stayed at the Keylors in Miller's Court that night.

    One thing to clarify though, Anna; Mrs Sarah Lewis of 24 Great Pearl Street is the witness who claimed she had a row with her husband that caused her to spend the night at Miller's Court. She gave Great Pearl Street as her address in her statement. That's all we know about her.

    Sarah Lewis/Gotheimer, claimed by her descendants to be the witness Sarah Lewis and researched by Chris Scott was never linked to Great Pearl Street or even to Spitalfields. When this woman's son was born in August 1888, his birth certificate, obtained by Robert Linford, shows she was living at Mile End at that time.

    I feel that Sarah Lewis is more likely to be someone like Sarah Ann Pike, living in lodging houses in Spitalfields and marryied to a Lewis in Sept 88, apparently persuaded by the City Missionary Pateman who worked among the fallen women of the Spitalfields lodging houses and encouraged those living together to marry.
    It's interesting to note that most couples Pateman witnessed the marriages of in that list, gave the same address.

    Leave a comment:

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