Kelly's real landlord - Abraham Barnett 1833-1918

[Sam Flynn]

I have often wondered if the Jewish name Barnett was a rendering of a Jewish name such as Bernstein etc.

Hello Chris

"Barnet/Barnet" are, along with "Benedict", common anglicisations of the Jewish name "Baruch".

[Chris Scott]

It appears that Barnett did not have a good business track record. The bankruptcy notice I posted at post #8 was not his first.
The clipping below is from the London Gazette from 8 March 1864

[Phil Carter]

Hello Chris

"Barnet/Barnet" are, along with "Benedict", common anglicisations of the Jewish name "Baruch".

Hello Gareth,

Thanks for this... I was wondering about why someone would "translate" their Jewish name to an English variant.. especially when, as you point out, the variant is already in place (as above) and not connected to the last name of the Jewish person in question, in this case. Is there a "Baruch" in the family Chris? Perhaps I missed something? (probably!)



Phil

[Chris Scott]

Hello Gareth,

Thanks for this... I was wondering about why someone would "translate" their Jewish name to an English variant.. especially when, as you point out, the variant is already in place (as above) and not connected to the last name of the Jewish person in question, in this case. Is there a "Baruch" in the family Chris? Perhaps I missed something? (probably!)



Phil

Hi Phil
From the family tree there may have been some question as his legitimacy I would surmise. His father is named as P Bear Zweigbaum and no mother is named. This is the opposite of most illegitimate listings as it is usually the father not listed. The "Bear" is apparently the translation of the name Dov and I have seen Barnett himself listed as Abraham Dov Barnett.
The motive for a change of name or anglicising a name would be for a variety of reasons. For example, even though the Jewish population of the East End was considerable (or maybe because it was) ant semitism was not at all unknown - consider Warren's wiping of the Goulston Street writing. So I suppose in some cases the name was changed for social or business reasons.

[Chris G.]

It appears that Barnett did not have a good business track record. The bankruptcy notice I posted at post #8 was not his first.
The clipping below is from the London Gazette from 8 March 1864

Similarly, the furrier Martin Kosminski, who had a business in Milk Street, Cheapside, underwent bankruptcies and appeared in court in regard to other legal scrapes over the years. Vide Christopher T. George, "The Bankruptcies of Martin Kosminski," Ripperologist No. 42, August 2002.

Best regards

Chris

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

Here’s a National Life Story (source for the geni.com tree) by a descendantnif Abraham Barnett.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/photos.geni.com/p13/24/d8/5f/c0/5344483be7aca763/021i-c0410x0049xx-zzzza0_original.pdf

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

The research I've uncovered is super-complicated. It involves the butcher Henry Jacob's son Judah. His brother married a relative of Rosalie Ochse. A poster is suggesting he adopted the alias Jacques Daniel Myers, and interesting things result.

https://www.british-genealogy.com/archive/index.php/t-73467.html?

My interest is in the fact that the parties have a lot of addresses in Paddington (see above link) near Mary Jane Kelly's landlord's home in Maida Vale - 21 Portsdown Ave which is now 21 Randolph Ave.

Cumberland House for one is only .2 miles away. I already think they all know Rosalie but this kind of highlights the few degrees of separation.

[Gary Barnett]

The research I've uncovered is super-complicated. It involves the butcher Henry Jacob's son Judah. His brother married a relative of Rosalie Ochse. A poster is suggesting he adopted the alias Jacques Daniel Myers, and interesting things result.

https://www.british-genealogy.com/archive/index.php/t-73467.html?

My interest is in the fact that the parties have a lot of addresses in Paddington (see above link) near Mary Jane Kelly's landlord's home in Maida Vale - 21 Portsdown Ave which is now 21 Randolph Ave.

Cumberland House for one is only .2 miles away. I already think they all know Rosalie but this kind of highlights the few degrees of separation.

SF,

Do you imagine AB knew every person to whom McCarthy sublet a room in Dorset Street?

I personally doubt he ever met McCarthy, let alone the untold hundreds that washed in and out of the slum rooms they drew their income from.

It's a pity Chris Scott chose to use the word 'real' when he started this thread. It's meaningless.

Gary

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

McCarthy is already identified. I’m not following his trail in the least.

I’m tracing Mary Kelly through her reasonably established West End London origin. If the last landlord is practically next door to her first London “Madam”’s in-laws, (that’s what it looks like), isn’t it worth a look?

[Gary Barnett]

McCarthy is already identified. I’m not following his trail in the least.

I’m tracing Mary Kelly through her reasonably established West End London origin. If the last landlord is practically next door to her first London “Madam”’s in-laws, (that’s what it looks like), isn’t it worth a look?

Of course it is, SF.

[Gary Barnett]

I looked in Fiona Rule’s book to see if there was an explanation of the M vs A Barnett discrepancy, but couldn’t find anything.

By 1890 Abraham was said to have no assets. Had he sold the Dorset Street properties by then?

[Gary Barnett]

I looked in Fiona Rule’s book to see if there was an explanation of the M vs A Barnett discrepancy, but couldn’t find anything.

By 1890 Abraham was said to have no assets. Had he sold the Dorset Street properties by then?

No available assets. He had 28k of secured debt. Secured on property (real estate) presumably.

Was he actually receiving the rent from the pledged properties?

[Markus Aurelius Franzoi]

I looked in Fiona Rule’s book to see if there was an explanation of the M vs A Barnett discrepancy, but couldn’t find anything.

By 1890 Abraham was said to have no assets. Had he sold the Dorset Street properties by then?

Could M be his son Moses? He was born in 1867.

Isn't McCarthy supposed to have bought the properties by 1881? Lax tax records? Or some sort of arrangement?

My grandather had a brother called Moses, known as Uncle Mo, and this again was a bit
of my grandfather's intolerance of anything that didn't come up to his standards. Uncle
Mo was not a very successful businessman apparently; he used to batten on ...my
grandfather I think (Pyza). And, he, he used to batten on...he used to...any rate, he was
always the poor relation, Uncle Mo was. https://s3.amazonaws.com/photos.geni...0_original.pdf

[Gary Barnett]

Could M be his son Moses? He was born in 1867.

Isn't McCarthy supposed to have bought the properties by 1881? Lax tax records? Or some sort of arrangement?

Not sure. They were advertised for sale in 1866, 1871 and 1884.

Is there any hard evidence that the M. Barnett shown in the 1889 tax record is the Maida Vale builder or his son?

Fiona Rule does indulge in guesswork at times. For instance, she says there is circumstantial evidence of the Dorset Street and Breezer’s hill JM’s being related and working for the same ‘firm’. She cites the fact that they were both brought up around Borough High Street as an example. Now, I was under the impression that Rose Brooks’s husband was a Whitechapel man.

[Gary Barnett]

This is from the City Press of 1st December, 1866. Also being offered for sale is 149, Houndsditch.

C586FE83-8610-4184-839D-CF812CA53E54.jpeg

Perhaps Barnett tried to offload the properties in 1866, 1871 and 1884, but there were no takers?