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The French Lady Uncovered ?

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  • The Sins of the Cities of the Plain - Wikipedia

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    • Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
      Personally, I think the roots of MJK's existence and reasons for her absconding to London go back to the Dublin Castle Scandal of 1884. I think that scandal is also the roots for the Cleveland Street Scandal. Both scandals involved the post office. Remember, there was a high ranking postal official involved in the aftermath of the Miller's Court murder. Wasn't it around 1884 that Mary was said to have arrived in London?
      I'm certain MJK was a local by the name of Mary Ann Kelly.

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      • Hi Dave.

        All of this is spread across this forum in different threads. Info on Jack Saul, the Cleveland Street affair, etc. One interesting thing of note, though, but I'll be damned if I can find it again, is a recollection I have reading that John (Jack) Saul was at one time in the 2nd Battalion of the Scots Guards.

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        • Hi Jerry.

          Don't remember that one.

          From his book ......

          Just as this is going to press there is a case in the London Daily Telegraph of July 9, 1881, in which a corporal of the Scots Guards is caught in the act of committing an unnatural offence at a coffee house in Lower Sloane Street. He gets committed for trial, whilst his companion, who has the luck to be Secretary to the German Embassy in London, is claimed to be dealt with by the German Government, and sent home to [Pg 103]Vaterland, which is no doubt all that will happen to him.

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          • Originally posted by D.J.Adams View Post
            Hi Jerry.

            Don't remember that one.

            From his book ......

            Just as this is going to press there is a case in the London Daily Telegraph of July 9, 1881, in which a corporal of the Scots Guards is caught in the act of committing an unnatural offence at a coffee house in Lower Sloane Street. He gets committed for trial, whilst his companion, who has the luck to be Secretary to the German Embassy in London, is claimed to be dealt with by the German Government, and sent home to [Pg 103]Vaterland, which is no doubt all that will happen to him.
            Not this account. I read somewhere that Saul was a member of the Guards. Maybe bad info? This story was interesting, though. I remember looking into John Cameron, but more into the location. In 1881, Thomas Conway and Catherine Eddowes lived in Lower George Street, which was less than a block away from Lower Sloane Street. Also, Turks Row was nearby. That was Elizabeth Jackson's address in 1889.

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            • I think I was trying to connect, at the time, the TC Jr that MAY have been the Hammond rent boy procurer, to the stomping grounds of Elizabeth Jackson. They would have been a few years apart in age in 1881, but I was thinking maybe they could have bumped into each other at school or friends in that neighborhood.

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              • I'm only just beginning to grasp how central a figure, in both of these scandals, George Cavendish-Bentick was. He is as Jerry says, The MInotaur of London.

                He's the center of the labyrinth. He's already been linked directly to relevant characters in the West End. He worked with Rosalie Ochse's relative, Albert Boss, etc. and her client, Lord Euston, etc. Mary Jane Kelly was lost in that labyrinth.

                That begs the question: If all the MJK roads lead to GC-B, then why would her identity be kept a secret, if that was the case, and if she was just a common prostitute? The male prostitutes on Cleveland St. were named.

                Doesn't it suggest that she was related in some way to the major personalities or their close associates who wanted to remain anonymous? Remember her family, if they recognized her from the reports, also kept her identity a secret....

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                • Louise Mourez is really Louise Rose Mourey or Mourie.

                  May Louise and the Marylebone midwife - Untold lives blog

                  The above link puts her on Milton now Balcombe St. in Marylebone which would put her near Regent's Park, again near Madame Ochse.

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                  • I believe I accidentally stumbled across the identity of the French Madam that MJK worked for, about 4 years ago. The brothel was on the West Side of London and the name of the Madam, which in the past was referred to as Bouquet was a mangled version of her real name. She was deported back to France.

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                    • Originally posted by Mark Kent View Post
                      I believe I accidentally stumbled across the identity of the French Madam that MJK worked for, about 4 years ago. The brothel was on the West Side of London and the name of the Madam, which in the past was referred to as Bouquet was a mangled version of her real name. She was deported back to France.
                      That's interesting, Mark. I seem to remember you or someone else posting about that on Casebook.

                      Of course, Mrs. Buki's real name was Boeke or Boekee, a name which has variously been spelled as Bouquet in the records, and similar. She was everything except "Bucket", as I believe Anna once said. But Mrs. Boeke lived in the East End and only went to the West End to help Mary get her box of dresses from the French Lady, as you probably know.

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                      • Hi San Fran - Yes...that's what some people believe. I think the original name was a reporters attempt at hearing a French name and then transcribing it to fit some English version. Then came the Morganstone connection and Bouquet became Buki....or maybe it just might have really been Bouche, a French madam who operated a brothel on Greek Street?
                        You be the judge....

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                        • We've had a lot of French Lady possibilities. There was Mrs. Hammond, Madam Caroline. I thought it could be Demay, Then I thought it was Ochse. Now I think it's Roullier.

                          Is your's Marie Lousie Bouche b. c. 1821 in France and living as a lodger in the home of a draper in 1871, occupation "booker" which I believe could be "book-keeping". The name is an interesting coincidence but Mrs. Boeke came from the Netherlands, not France, although her distant ancestors might have been from France.

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                            • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                              And butchers and knackers were in completely different trades.
                              Knackers picked up roadkill or whatever. Who's doing that in our cast?

                              Continental immigrants would eat horse, and probably sell horse meat as something else. Just short of Sweeney Todd.

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                              • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                                At the risk of being accused of pedantry, I must point out that passenger steamers did not call at the St Katherine (no ‘s) Docks, but at the Irongate and St Katherine wharves.

                                And butchers and knackers were in completely different trades.
                                I'm still trying to orient myself here. I'm not a Timelord or a LocationLord.

                                Irongate/St. Katharine's Wharves - The Locations Guide to Doctor Who, Torchwood and The Sarah Jane Adventures (doctorwholocations.net)


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