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The French Lady Uncovered ?

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  • Originally posted by San Fran View Post
    She married Henry Swaebe. He was Belgian so there’s your Belgian connection. She was also a dressmaker and a milliner.
    Great movie flops of all time #8: Betty Grable, Marilyn Monroe and Lauren Bacall in "How to Marry a Milliner"
    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

    "Suche Nullen"
    (F. Nietzsche)

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    • Henry Swaebe (Schwabe)’s father was born in Belgium but they’re actually Dutch cigar makers. Close but “lots of” cigars!

      Signed
      Slum Dog Milliner

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      • I can’t see Mary Kelly working in a bordello. She seems too independent.

        How could the retrieval of the dresses have taken place? Did she get them back from the French Lady or did she get the dresses back that she got from the French Lady. Why did she bring Mrs. Buki? I always thought they went and stole the dresses back but now I think they worked something else out.

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        • Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
          The other was a Press Association reporter who visited the Ratcliff area. He stated she (MJK) visited a French Lady near Knightsbridge and was candid about riding in carriages.
          Rosalie’s brother Joseph was a coachman so that might be where she got some free rides in Regent Park. (PS. Rosalie also had a live-in coachman in the 1881 Census.)

          The closest I can get so far to Knightsbridge is Joseph in Paddington. That hasn’t been considered part of Knightsbridge for 500 years but maybe they didn’t get the memo!

          https://jacobstree.co.uk/tngjacobs/g...=I2191&tree=T1

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          • Originally posted by San Fran View Post
            Henry Swaebe (Schwabe)’s father was born in Belgium but they’re actually Dutch cigar makers. Close but “lots of” cigars!
            Language, nationality, and business would lend to possibilities of links to the Morgensterns or at least encounter or exchanges.

            But I'm thinking there's a possibility that the Morgensterns might be related to Rosalie Ochse's sister Julie Swaebe's Dutch inlaws, although the Swaebes and probably the Pfahls were Jewish and the Morgensterns weren't. Julie's husband Henry Swaebe's first wife was a gentile.

            Swaebe is originally Swaab or Zwaab. The Morgensterns have a Zwaan in their ancestry.

            https://www.openarch.nl/show.php?arc...8a27db&lang=en
            https://www.genealogieonline.nl/gene...en/I260488.php

            My genealogical work trying to link the Dutch Morgensterns to the American Morgensterns might pay off.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by San Fran View Post
              Language, nationality, and business would lend to possibilities of links to the Morgensterns or at least encounter or exchanges.

              But I'm thinking there's a possibility that the Morgensterns might be related to Rosalie Ochse's sister Julie Swaebe's Dutch inlaws, although the Swaebes and probably the Pfahls were Jewish and the Morgensterns weren't. Julie's husband Henry Swaebe's first wife was a gentile.

              Swaebe is originally Swaab or Zwaab. The Morgensterns have a Zwaan in their ancestry.

              https://www.openarch.nl/show.php?arc...8a27db&lang=en
              https://www.genealogieonline.nl/gene...en/I260488.php

              My genealogical work trying to link the Dutch Morgensterns to the American Morgensterns might pay off.
              Perhaps the Morgensterns or a branch thereof converted to Christianity at some time? It might go quite a way back in history. Protestant Holland was a safe haven for some escaping religious persecution. I do not know if this would include Jews. I am considering a large, extended family, some of which might have converted at some time and others not.
              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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              • A post by Wickerman reminded me that the newspapers said that the French Lady lived "in the neighbourhood of Knightsbridge".

                "... she made the acquaintance of a French woman residing in the neighbourhood of Knightsbridge..."

                Are the newspapers in the habit of saying neighbourhood when talking about Knightsbridge, for alliteration purposes perhaps, or did they mean vicinity? Did Mrs. Phoenix say "near"? For alliteration you could say "near Knightsbridge" if you wanted to say vicinity and have a better alliteration.

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                • Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
                  Perhaps the Morgensterns or a branch thereof converted to Christianity at some time? It might go quite a way back in history. Protestant Holland was a safe haven for some escaping religious persecution. I do not know if this would include Jews. I am considering a large, extended family, some of which might have converted at some time and others not.
                  Mrs. Buki was probably Jewish. Boeki is Jewish.

                  I know the marriage certificate had Boeku as the maiden name but I can't find Boeku in any genealogy. I know the u was said to sound something like an long e in English but what I find is that the u is a non-existent sound in English and to me it would still sound more like a long u than a long e. Couldn't she be a Boeki?

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                  • In 1879 and 80 electoral registers the name is given as Bockee. It was the surname of Ludwig (Louis) Bockee, Elizabeth's first husband, her maiden name was Bluma.

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                      • Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                        In 1879 and 80 electoral registers the name is given as Bockee. It was the surname of Ludwig (Louis) Bockee, Elizabeth's first husband, her maiden name was Bluma.
                        Is this him in one register entry?

                        London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
                        1800S (CENTURY)
                        Record information.
                        Name
                        Ludwig Boekee
                        Residence
                        1881 city England

                        He's Bockee as you say in another one:

                        London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
                        1800S (CENTURY)
                        Record information.
                        Name
                        Ludwig Bockee
                        Residence
                        1880 city England

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by San Fran View Post
                          Is this him in one register entry?

                          London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
                          1800S (CENTURY)
                          Record information.
                          Name
                          Ludwig Boekee
                          Residence
                          1881 city England

                          He's Bockee as you say in another one:

                          London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
                          1800S (CENTURY)
                          Record information.
                          Name
                          Ludwig Bockee
                          Residence
                          1880 city England
                          Yes, still at 79 Pennington Street according to that. Good spot.

                          Comment


                          • Sorry, just checked and the 1881 electoral entry is also in Neal Shelden's book. It was compiled in 1880 and by April 81 the family were in Portree St Poplar, the widowed Mrs Boeku and Johannes Morgenstern returning to 79 Pennington St before the birth of their twins in 1885.

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                            • According to the only other records with a similar name, the name is Ludwig Boeke with an e.

                              One with a birth record in Germany. Lutheran rather than Jewish. Marriage record from Netherlands. Probably him?

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                              • It is written as Bouquey in the 1881 census. That might be a clue to the pronunciation?

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