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The French Lady Uncovered ?

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  • Kattrup
    replied
    Originally posted by D.J.Adams View Post
    There had been no rent paid since the double event.
    Doubt Mary Kelly was as close to Barnett as most surmise.
    Reckon she was in the process of dumping him,one way or another.
    Actually, I think she had stopped paying rent before the double event. She should have paid on September 28th, and probably before, but did not. Since she owed for more than six weeks.

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  • D.J.Adams
    replied
    There had been no rent paid since the double event.
    Doubt Mary Kelly was as close to Barnett as most surmise.
    Reckon she was in the process of dumping him,one way or another.

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  • Markus Aurelius Franzoi
    replied
    Originally posted by D.J.Adams View Post
    The former.
    That makes sense as it offers an explanation as to why Mary Jane Kelly went so far as to go back 2-3 years in her story and tell him about Morganstone (Morgenstern). Why offer that information about who she was with before Fleming when you don't have to? It might have been something to mention if they ended up back in that neighborhood.

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  • D.J.Adams
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post

    If this incident indeed happened a "short time ago", I was thinking more along the lines of whether Mary was still living with JB when she ventured out early in the morning to the Highway or if it was after JB moved out?
    The former.

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  • D.J.Adams
    replied
    Reminds me of Kidney at the Inquest.

    Coroner] You know of nobody whom she was likely to have complications with or fall foul of? - No, but I think the police authorities are very much to blame, or they would have got the man who murdered her. At Leman-street Police-station, on Monday night, I asked for a detective to give information to get the man.
    [Coroner] What information had you? - I could give information that would enable the detectives to discover the man at any time.
    [Coroner] Then will you give us your information now? - I told the inspector on duty at the police-station that I could give information provided he would let me have a young, strange detective to act on it, and he would not give me one.
    [Coroner] What do you think should be inquired into? - I might have given information that would have led to a great deal if I had been provided with a strange young detective.

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  • Jerry Dunlop
    replied
    Originally posted by D.J.Adams View Post

    A two shilling bed.
    If this incident indeed happened a "short time ago", I was thinking more along the lines of whether Mary was still living with JB when she ventured out early in the morning to the Highway or if it was after JB moved out?

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by D.J.Adams View Post

    A two shilling bed.
    Yes, indeed. I’ve seen a couple of references to that being the price of a bed in the Highway. Drink would be extra and the punter would be expected to share it with the household.

    Obviously sailors who had just been paid off after long voyages devoid of female company had more money than sense.

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  • D.J.Adams
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
    I'm sure others have picked up on this, I haven't until now. Mrs. M'Carthy states Mary had, "some short time ago", visited her with a strange man and asked for a bed.

    Hull Daily Mail
    November 12, 1888


    A two shilling bed.

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  • Markus Aurelius Franzoi
    replied
    Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post
    I think the authorities were in contact with Mary's family, where much of the information originated that had no independent collaboration.
    Yes, I'm sure they were in contact with Mary's family, who was the same as that of and included, I believe, the subject of this thread - Rosalie Ochse.

    But I don't think any of their statements made it to the press as it would create a scandal. That's why all the investigations appeared to stop.

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  • Scott Nelson
    replied
    Originally posted by San Fran View Post
    The article says "statements have appeared". That sounds like written statements. Could that be evidence that Mrs. Phoenix, in her statement to the police, did make those statements about Buki and Mary and the French Lady in the West End?
    I think the authorities were in contact with Mary's family, where much of the information originated that had no independent collaboration.

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  • Jerry Dunlop
    replied
    I'm sure others have picked up on this, I haven't until now. Mrs. M'Carthy states Mary had, "some short time ago", visited her with a strange man and asked for a bed.

    Hull Daily Mail
    November 12, 1888


    Leave a comment:


  • Markus Aurelius Franzoi
    replied
    The article says "statements have appeared". That sounds like written statements. Could that be evidence that Mrs. Phoenix, in her statement to the police, did make those statements about Buki and Mary and the French Lady in the West End?

    Madam Roullier didn't live in a "fashionable" house of resorts. But I don't doubt that Madam Ochse did. Or else, how did she become a minor celebrity that was lampooned in the papers?!

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  • Jerry Dunlop
    replied
    I thought this was interesting. I wonder who the companions from her more prosperous days would be?

    Hull Daily Mail
    November 12th, 1888


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  • John Savage
    replied
    Shoddy cloth, invented in the mid 19th century was made from waste wool and was used for the making of clothes, shoddy being cheaper to make would allow clothes to be sold cheaper than those made from new wool. Perhaps the term "shoddy shop" could mean a cheap clothing shop?

    A little more detail here:

    https://www.historyextra.com/period/...e-word-shoddy/

    Rgds
    John

    Leave a comment:


  • Markus Aurelius Franzoi
    replied
    In that latter case, Milliner, when applied to a man, means: "..one busied in trifling occupations". Like a slap in the face for women's work
    Ya gotta laugh!
    Could this demeaning view be applied to the term "shoddy shop"? Charles Ochse would have been a trader in "fancy goods". Could it not be deemed as a "trifling occupation" for a man or a trade in "shoddy rags"?

    In which case, the report of Mary working in a "shoddy shop" could actually mean that she worked in a "fancy goods" shop.

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