Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Elizabeth Prater- a younger woman than previously thought?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Elizabeth Prater- a younger woman than previously thought?

    This thread is a continuation of a discussion about a new ID of Elizabeth Prater first discussed on the Miller's Court residents thread.

  • #2
    Back at the beginning of 2015 I posted an entry from the Whitechapel Infirmary records for a 24 year old woman named Elizabeth Prater:

    Admitted May 29th 1884 Elizabeth Prater, age 24, no home, wife of Wm. boot machinist, cause of admission syphilis, Cof E, discharged July 1884
    Whitechapel Infirmary records.


    I thought this interesting as all we knew about Prater was that she said she had been deserted by her husband for a length of time and his name was William Prater, a boot machinist.
    This same woman was admitted to the Infirmary in the 90s and gave an address of 8 Brick Lane.

    Robert then discovered a marriage entry between William Prater boot machinist age 21 and Elizabeth Broomer, also 21.
    http://www.jtrforums.com/showpost.ph...3&postcount=40
    The marriage entry showed that this William Prater, boot machinist was in fact the son of the William Prater previously picked out as the husband of Dorset St Elizabeth Prater. His wife Elizabeth was born in the 40's and would have been middle aged in 1888 whereas the younger Elizabeth Prater would have .been 25

    A settlement record from 1888 that I posted to the other thread
    http://www.jtrforums.com/showpost.ph...0&postcount=46

    shows that the 25 year old Elizabeth Prater was deserted by her husband almost immediately after marriage. I have tried to transcribe the details from the settlement record her, any corrections welcome as it's very basic:

    Prater Elizabeth 25. Wife of William Prater to whom married at St Thos Church 8th Oct 1881 No children. absent 4 yrs came ?? 19th Feby never cohabited with him since. husband been at ??? once? this time, left me at Croydon at 103 Church St . after he left me I took a situation at the cha?el East ??ns Nr Croydon then went into Croydon Infirmary. 4 mos prior last place living with him at 84 Reens Rd Croydon. 4 mos ?? at 10 Catherine Street Croydon 2 mos was with him at Hawes Horse slaughter ???????? Hoxton
    2 mos came from home to ??? her after being away 4 mos. 6 Pimlico Walk Hoxton with Uncle Mr Davis 6 weeks (can't decipeher the majority of last sentence on first page) London Fields 28 Clarkson Street ??? time, first place after marrie(d?) 11 Old ??? Rd short time. 8 Blossom Place White Lion St Norton Folgate for 5 years.


    I am going to check other Infirmary records to see if I can find more entries, she must have been in Bethnal Green workhouse or Infirmary and had been in Mile End too.

    Comment


    • #3
      Crikey.

      My best guess:

      Prater Elizabeth 25. Wife of William Prater to whom married at St Thos Church 8th Oct 1881 B.G. No children. absent 4 yrs come the[?] 19th Feby never cohabited with him since. husband been at sea since this time, left me at Croydon at 103 Church Street. after he left me I took a situation at the Chalet[?] East ??? Nr Croydon then went into Croydon Infy. he was in Croydon Infy. 4 mos prior last place living with him at 84 Reens Rd Croydon. 4 mos prior at 10 Catherine Street Croydon 2 mos prior with him at Hawes Horse slaughter Fanshaw Street Hoxton
      2 mos came from home to see her after being away 4 mos. 6 Pimlico Walk Hoxton with Uncle Mr Davis 6 weeks Grays Essex 5 mos ??? Terrace London Fields 28 Clarkson Street short time, first place after marr[iage] 111 Old??? Rd short time. 8 Blossom Place White Lion Street Norton Folgate for 5 years.
      I bet your Ripper feels better now.

      Comment


      • #4
        Debra,

        I made it 'Fanshaw Street' between 'slaughter' and 'Hoxton'. It's still there today.

        And the bit after Mr Davis 6 weeks could be 'Grays Essex 5 mos Duncan Terrace...'


        Gary.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks very much Mark and Gary.

          Comment


          • #6
            I've been trying to trace the future Prater Elizabeth Broomer's early life. I cannot find this James Broomer, undertaker, in the censuses, nor can I find a suitable marriage for him, or indeed a suitable death for him (even if he buried himself). The best I can suggest is that Elizabeth was staying with her grandparents (or rather, I think it should be great-grandparents) at Lower Beeding in 1871, while her widowed mother Mary was at Croydon. In 1872 Mary married Arthur Parrott, her lodger, and they are together in 1881, including Elizabeth. It's just a theory.
            Attached Files

            Comment


            • #7
              But why Shadwell, I wonder? The lack of a full address on the marriage cert is annoying.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Gary

                I don't know, but I've just seen a tree on Ancestry that may clear some of it up. According to the tree, William Broomer married Mary Funnell (I'd been looking for Fennell) in 1858. There is a William Broomer dying in 1866.

                I don't know where that leaves James with his shovel, but there you go.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks Robert. I'll give that a look through.
                  I've been looking for the Dinah (Dannsberry?) who signed the 1881 marriage certificate because the 'Uncle' Davis mentioned in the settlement was James Davis, a looking glass maker, he was a widow but his wife had been called Dinah (she apparently died in 1886)

                  I think Prater may have died in 1896, there's a death registered in Islington of a woman of the right age and she was ill in 94 and 95

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Blimey, nothing seems to work. It certainly looks like something berry.

                    Yes, it may have been Prater in Islington. I suppose the syphilis would have killed her indirectly by affecting her health.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have been following this thread and the other. I found a short article based largely on Chris Scott's work, about Prater. It suggested Prater was the older woman. There were some additional bits I thought I would share here if it helps the research progress.

                      According to this article Prater reconciled with her husband in 1891. She was back living by herself at Millers Court in 1892. Kit Watkins interviewed her at the time Lottie was living in Mary's old room.

                      So I wonder if Ms. Watkins actually interviewed the Elizabeth Prater or if someone there claimed to be her? I got the idea from the 1891 census that McCarthy had made an effort to rent more to families or couples than to single women. I had the idea Mary's horrific death scared him straight or something.
                      The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Anna

                        But what if Kit was interviewing the younger Elizabeth Prater?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I wasn't trying to make a point about age. The older Prater wasn't connected in the article to the 1892 residency at Millers Court. There are two different paragraphs. My point was that I thought, between these two threads, the younger Elizabeth Prater may not have been living there in 1892. (Maybe I have something wrong.) So I posted for what it's worth. Or maybe another woman claimed to be Prater sp she could be interviewed.
                          The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There's an interesting post by Robert McLaughlin (#4 by RJM) in this old casebook thread mentioning the appearance of Prater in the Kit Watkins article:

                            http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=2478

                            With all due respect to Chris Scott and his fantastic research work; He explains in 'A Cast of Thousands' that he chose the Elizabeth Prater he did because she was the only one he could find married to a boot machinist named William. This woman was listed with her husband in the 81 and 91 census, causing Chris to speculate that she had separated from her husband and gone back to him by way of an explanation.

                            http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media...th-prater.html

                            I came across the younger Prater by accident- a young, homeless, sick woman whose husband William, a boot finisher, had definitley deserted her for four years by Jan 88, as we can see by the settlement records and who was known to have lived in Brick Lane in later years.

                            Chris Scott did not choose the older Prater over the younger one, just to be clear-he obviously didn't know about the younger (related) one at the time he wrote the book.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                              Blimey, nothing seems to work. It certainly looks like something berry.

                              Yes, it may have been Prater in Islington. I suppose the syphilis would have killed her indirectly by affecting her health.
                              Thanks, Robert. Still no luck for me either.
                              I have decided I am going to try my hardest to write a research article on this as Prater as a younger woman opens up avenues for discussion as far as the contradictory descriptions of MJK go, I feel.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X