Mrs Rees 1888

[AP Wolf]

Nicely done, Nina
but what makes me hesitate is the wording of the report:
'We have been asked to say...'
Whom by?
The family of Mrs Rees perhaps?
One must not forget that the 'Western Mail' of Cardiff was also the champion of 'Fairy Fay' - November 10th 1888 - who was but fairy dust.
I still believe that the fact that Mary Kelly was supposedly murdered in November of 1888, and then Mary Rees sentenced to ten years in December of 1888 for murder, to show a reflection of their previous knowledge of each other.

[Sam Flynn]

But it seems that what's being denied is Kelly having worked for Mrs. Rees, not her having availed herself of the abortionist's services.

It might also have been because the late Dr Hopkins' family objected to their daughter being identified with the Mrs Rees (abortionist) in question, Tom.

[Sam Flynn]

RG12/556 Folio 140 Page 9

This could well be her in 1881. Penny Something Rd
RG11/5316
Folio 120 Page 7

Rob,

Any chance you could point me to that specific record? It's a minefield trying to find a specific Mary Rees otherwise - and I can't pinpoint this lady on Ancestry.com. However, if I can decipher what that "Penysomething" really was I can search by street name.

[Robert Linford]

Hi Gareth

A search of all countries all censuses for Mary Jane Florence Rees will bring up the convict in Woking prison in 1891. A search of the 81 Welsh census for Mary Jane Rees born 1860 plus or minus 5 will bring up the only one such married to a John. Ancestry transcribe the address as Penydarren Rd.

Robert

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Robert,

That's Penydarren Road in Garth, Merthyr Tydfil, quite a distance (in those days) from Swansea, and this Mrs Rees seems to have been a Merthyr girl all her life. I don't think this is the same lady, unfortunately, but thanks for finding her nonetheless.

Plugging away!

[Nina Brown]

1881 census: Carmarthen St. Peter, Carmarthen, Wales
RG11/5397 Folio 110, Page 26
11 Quay Street
John Morgan Hopkins-head-66-Widowed-b.Fownehope, Hereford, England-Physician M.D.
Mary J.-daughter-unmarried-21-b.Llangadock, Carmarthen, Wales-no occupation
Barbara L.-daughter-unmarried-20-b.Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales-no occupation
Elizabeth A. Watkins-visitor-unmarried-22-b.Gloucester, England-no occupation
Sarah Jones-servant-18-b.Llangunnor, Carmarthen, Wales-general servant

Marriage
1885 March quarter in Swansea
Volume: 11A Page: 873
Mary Jane Hopkins & John Rees

It seems that if MJK was a servant, at age 17, in the household she would have been a servant for Dr. Hopkins not Mary. Or possibly a patient? This may be the reason that the paper retracted the article, so as not to tarnish the doctors name. However, the news report does state that MJK was in Swansea. We know that Mary Hopkins moved to Swansea sometime after the 1881 census. Did she move there alone or with her father? His death was recorded in Llanelly.

Death
1885 March Quarter in Llanelly
Volume:11A Page: 557
John Morgan Hopkins
Age: 72

Could Mary Hopkins/Rees possibly be the infamous cousin of Mary Jane Kelly?
Mary Jane Florence Hopkins/Rees moved from Carmarthen to Swansea
Mary Jane Kelly moved from Carmarthen or Carnarvon to Cardiff ?


Tom,
I still contribute to the Casebook by transcribing news articles.

Nina

[Sam Flynn]

Good find, Nina, however I fear that we will be left in the usual limbo when it comes to Mary Kelly. The problem with it is that I've counted thirteen Mary (Jane) Reeses in the Swansea area in the 1891 census, all about the same age as the abortionist. Whilst we know thanks to Rob that the abortionist was in prison in 1891, we can't tell whether any one of these thirteen other Marys weren't actually Doctor Hopkins' daughter! If one of them indeed were, then that would explain the apology and retraction printed in the newspaper. She, herself, might have complained.

It should be noted that the 1891 Woking Prison convict, who is undoubtedly the same Mary Jane Florence Rees named in the newspaper article as the abortionist, gives her place of birth as Llangennech, which is about 25 miles away from Llangadock, which is where the doctor's daughter was born.

Another difficulty arises from the fact that we don't even know if the Doctor's daughter married a man called John Rees either. In fact, there's another Mary, born in 1860 at Llangadock, Carmarthen living at 4, Caersalem Row, Llangyfelach, Swansea in 1891 - married to a labourer named David Morgans. I haven't been able to trace her maiden name, but it's possible that she could have been a Hopkins as well - it's a reasonably common name in South Wales.

All of these riddles are frustrating enough, and we haven't even touched on placing "Mary Kelly" in Swansea yet!

Grateful for your help in all this

[AP Wolf]

I thought this report from 'The Star', of the 10th October 1888, concerning the 'Somer's Town Murder' to contain perhaps the germ of an idea of what was going on in Mary Jane Kelly's room that night.
(Gratefully nicked from the Casebook press reports section!)


'A SOMERS TOWN MURDER.
MYSTERIOUS DEATH OF A FACTORY GIRL IN HER FRIEND'S HOUSE.
The Doctor Declares that Abortion was Procured - Her Sweetheart Protests his Innocence - The Coroner and Jury Both Complain of Perjury - Curious Mental Wanderings of the Girl.
Coroner Westcott held an adjourned inquest last evening which lasted four hours on Emma Wakefield, aged 20, a spinster, daughter of a cabdriver, of 17, Haverstock-road, who died on 29 Sept., at 60, Aldenham-street, Somers Town. The deceased, who was described as a good-looking, well-conducted girl, worked at Mr. Homan's, shell box manufactory, 93, Charrington-street, Somers Town, where she earned 9s. per week, and was engaged to be married to Thomas Price, a young man employed at Messrs. McCorquodale's printing works, Cardington-street. With the latter's married sister, Mrs. Burrow's, the deceased lodged for six weeks prior to her death during the absence of her mother in the country. On Sunday evening, the 23rd ult., after being out with her sweetheart an hour and a half, she returned to the house of Mrs. Burrows, 60, Aldenham-street, and retired to her bedroom ill. The next night she consulted Dr. Kennedy, who treated her for a severe cough and cold, but she gradually got worse, and expired on the following Saturday. A post-mortem examination revealed that the deceased had been enceinte, and Dr. Kennedy and Dr. D. R. Jones (the latter the medical officer of Mr. Homan's factory, who had suspected the girl's condition and ceased to be consulted by her), were agreed that

BLOOD POISONING FOLLOWING ABORTION
caused death, and that an instrument, which inflicted wounds, had been used. - Thomas Price said he had "kept company" with the deceased five years, and they were to be married next Whitsuntide. He earned £1 per week and helped to maintain his mother. He emphatically denied that he was responsible for the deceased's condition, and added that he was wholly unaware of it until after the post-mortem examination. He had no reason to suspect that she was on terms of intimacy with any other man. - Mrs. Burrows, whose husband, an ailing man, had died, as she said, from "shock" since the opening of the inquest, was in attendance upon the girl during her illness, as were Mrs. Price, witness's mother, and a Mrs. Pite, witness's cousin.

ALL DENIED ANY KNOWLEDGE
of the real cause of the girl's illness or of her previous condition. Mr. Homan said the deceased borrowed 10s. of him six weeks ago, but neither her mother, who returned home before her daughter's death, nor any of her friends were aware of this, or how she spent the money. - Mrs. Wakefield was asked by the Coroner whether her daughter made anything in the nature of a dying confession. She replied "Yes; she said an angel was waiting to receive her; that she was leaving the world

A PRUDENT, UPRIGHT GIRL,
that she was quitting this life without a fault upon her tongue, and that she was cut down in the midst of her bloom." Then she would sing hymns. "Oh, so sweetly," said the witness. - The Coroner: Did she allude to any persons? - Witness: Yes; she said, "Look at that woman in the corner, you liar, you liar! You deceived me. Go out of this room." Mrs. Price was in the corner. Then his daughter exclaimed, "Is there a man in the room? If so, let him get up and speak for himself and answer like a man." All this was shortly before she died. Mrs. Price deposed to accompanying the deceased, at the latter's request, to Dr. Kennedy's, on Monday night, 24 Sept., but her account of what was said on the occasion differed from that of the doctor's. Just before the deceased expired she mentioned the name of some person, but the witness did not remember it. - A Juror: Was it Price: - Witness: No, it was Johnson. - Mr. Homan explained that Mr. Johnson, his brother-in-law, who was a married man 50 years old, was the foreman of the department of his factory in which the deceased worked. He had been with witness 27 years. Mrs. Price added that Mr. Johnson called with Dr. Jones to see the deceased. After they had gone the deceased mentioned Mr. Johnson's name, and said,

"STAND UP AND FACE ME."
Mrs. Jane Pite's version of the language used was somewhat different. She stated that while the deceased was delirious she exclaimed, "Stand up, Mr. Johnson! Father, look at him! Mrs. Price, get out of the way." Then she turned to the wall and said, "Ah! I have got you!" Presently she began singing "Yes or no before I go." She sang beautifully. Witness did not regard her talk seriously, as she was evidently delirious and called witness "a liar" more than once. Other evidence showed that the police, who searched 60, Aldenham-street, immediately after the inquest, found nothing to explain the means of the girl's death. Her father, although he owned that Price and his daughter were often out until midnight, and he had to remonstrate with them in consequence, said he did not think Price "would hurt a hair of her head." The jury having deliberated in private found that the deceased died from the effects of blood poisoning following abortion, caused by the illegal use of instruments, and they were of opinion that some person or persons at present unknown were guilty of causing her death. They expressed their dissatisfaction with the evidence of some of the witnesses, and added that they attached no suspicion to Mr. Johnson. The Coroner: Your verdict is tantamount to one of wilful murder. I think perjury has been committed. '

[Sam Flynn]

I thought this report from 'The Star', of the 10th October 1888, concerning the 'Somer's Town Murder' to contain perhaps the germ of an idea of what was going on in Mary Jane Kelly's room that night.

Hi AP,

You mean what might have been going on, given very long odds. I can't quite follow how an abortion in Cardiff in July 1888 could have influenced the events at a murder scene in East London in November of that year. It's especially tricky to understand, since the accused in the former case were quite possibly being investigated by police, or even awaiting trial some 200 miles away, at about the same time that Mary Kelly was being killed.

Thanks for mining those newspaper reports, by the way, and for quoting your sources

[AP Wolf]

As I said Sam, I'm a bit of an adventurer and explorer myself.
The 'Somer's Town Murder' does show that in a dwelling where an abortion is carried out it does not imply that instruments or implements to carry out that abortion will be found... I think of Robert's earlier point and objection.
It also shows that a woman planning such an event will 'disappear', and then stay at a 'friend's' house for a few nights.
There is much to the murder of Mary Jane Kelly that picks at my soul, it just does not read right.
I'm not attempting to portray Mary Kelly as anything but the hapless victim of a hopeless murder, but in the smoke and mirrors I see something else.
Strange beasts.

[Sam Flynn]

As I said Sam, I'm a bit of an adventurer and explorer myself.

I'll drink to that, AP, old stick!

Far be it from me to nudge you from your perch alongside Nostradamus's tripod, lest out of the smoke some truth may on this occasion emerge. As the proprietor of Battersea Dogs' Home once said, "we need all the leads we can get"

[AP Wolf]

Thanks Sam
Maybe I should explain where I think I’m going here?
First off, there is various witness testimony showing that Mary Jane Kelly took in females from time to time, and usually for a few days. Much hype is booted about by various witness who claim that Mary was doing this out of the goodness of her heart as she did not like to see these ‘unfortunates’ freezing to death on the cold streets of Whitechapel.
Very laudable, but not at all true, for all the women she ‘took in’ already had their own lodgings in the immediate area, and returned to those lodgings immediately after their short sojourn at Mary’s place.
Joe the unemployed fish porter, or was he a coal porter? Anyways, good ol’ Joe appeared to take exception to Mary having other young ‘unfortunates’ staying at their shared lodgings overnight.
You can imagine him in the pub that night, with some mates.
‘You mean, Joe, that you’ve moved out of your lodgings with Mary because she insists that you, her and another woman share a bed together? ‘
Hey Joe! Where you going with that gun in your hand?
Smoking Joe, I don’t know.
I don’t do cozy and neat, and this is just too neat and sweet to be anything like a truth.
Second off, Mary Jane Rees, daughter of Dr. Hopkins, must have learnt her trade and craft off someone in possession of such knowledge. I would humbly suggest that the daughter, Mary Jane Hopkins, studied under her father, Dr Hopkins, who may well have carried out an abortion on Mary Jane Kelly in 1880; and then in December of 1888 when Mary Jane Kelly had been supposedly murdered in the most brutal circumstances, and Mary Jane Rees was on trial for her very life on charges of murder… the Hopkins were understandably nervous about any connecting material between the two events.
I do see that connection though.
Through the mists of time and brandy.

[SirRobertAnderson]

First off, there is various witness testimony showing that Mary Jane Kelly took in females from time to time, and usually for a few days. Much hype is booted about by various witness who claim that Mary was doing this out of the goodness of her heart as she did not like to see these ‘unfortunates’ freezing to death on the cold streets of Whitechapel.

Very laudable, but not at all true, for all the women she ‘took in’ already had their own lodgings in the immediate area, and returned to those lodgings immediately after their short sojourn at Mary’s place.

A question for you A.P.....

The Pearly Poll thread and your comments got me to thinking.

Something that would explain a few things would be if some of the 'unfortunates' were bisexual. Not hard at all to think PP was.....and if Kelly swung both ways we have an answer as to why she had overnight pajama parties with other women.

[AP Wolf]

I don't know Sir Robert, but my impression is that women were trying so hard to be humans in the LVP that they wouldn't have had the time to be lesbians.
Surely all that came with the welfare state and social security cheques after Britain lost the war?
Basically I'm struggling with the concept of Kelly as an abortionist, and am unwilling to chance my arm further than that.

[SirRobertAnderson]

I don't know Sir Robert, but my impression is that women were trying so hard to be humans in the LVP that they wouldn't have had the time to be lesbians.

In the present day it's not that uncommon for sex workers to be bisexual. (How Brown told me this in Baltimore, as he has done a lot of research into the profession. ) I realize the danger of applying present day patterns of behavior to Victorian times.

I don't want to sidetrack your thread, just want to propose an alternate explanation for the overnights.