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Mrs Rees 1888

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  • R. J. Palmer
    replied
    Do you think this Andrew Burch Watson is Andrew Alexander Burch Watson, born Plymouth in 1858 and listed as a railway clerk in Cardiff in 1881? His father is listed as a corporal in the Royal Artillery, so I don't know where the "hotel keeper" from the marriage certificate would fit in. The Hannah Dickie listed as a witness is Hannah Chapman who married a ship's joiner, and lived for many years on Grundy Street, Poplar, but I haven't found anything to associate her with either the bride nor the groom, beyond the fact that Watson lists himself as living in Poplar at the time of the wedding, 1882. It is a strange document, and not easy to reconcile with any other known info. I clawed and scratched around for quite awhile, and I still haven no idea who "Barbara Hopkins" is.

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  • Paul Williams
    replied
    Thank you. I suspect that this is the Barbara Louisa Hopkins born in Swansea, leaving us no closer to identifying the daughter of Dr. Hopkins.

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  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Barbara Louisa Trick, 9 King St, Swansea, married, age 22 in 1881, born Swansea, occupation book (boot?) stitcher. Frederick seems to be somewhere else, but she had a 1-year-old son John and more were to come subsequently.

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  • Paul Williams
    replied
    To further complicate matters a Barbara Louisa Hopkins married in Swansea in the second quarter of 1879 to either William John or Frederick Trick.

    The original Mary Jane Hopkins was alive in 1891, as head of the Goitre Wen household. All four sisters were still there as spinsters in 1901. I did find a possible marriage for one of them after that date but can't locate my notes now. One wonders if the family reputation was tarnished by their father's trial or by his extra-marital affairs and if this disgrace deterred potential suitors.

    In 1901 the sisters brought a court case against a tenant James Lewis to stop him burning down trees. The following year Lewis was convicted of assaulting Octavia Hopkins and then he and William Smith, his cousin, were convicted of perjury after claiming that Mary Jane Hopkins had hit Octavia with a stone.

    I believe that 11 Quay Street was Hopkin's surgery as well as his place of residence.

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  • R. J. Palmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
    There was a Barbara Louisa Hopkins registered in Swansea in 1857, mother's maiden name Jones and she also had a sister named Mary Jones Hopkins b 1860.

    Both these girls appear on the 1861 census (with middle names)with parents David and Elizabeth. David Hopkins is a either a boot or book seller and the family live in Swansea.

    Maybe it's just a coincidence of names, or could David be a relation of Dr Hopkins?
    Are these the same girls does anyone think?

    Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
    HOPKINS, BARBARA LOUISA JONES
    GRO Reference: 1857 D Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 489

    HOPKINS, MARY JONES JONES
    GRO Reference: 1860 S Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 500

    I had a rethink during my morning motorcycle ride, and maybe this deserves further scrutiny. If the hypothesis is that Dr. John M. Hopkins kept two families, why couldn't this be one of them? We'd then have Mary Jane #1 in Llannon, and Mary Jane #2 in Swansea, and Mary Jane #3 of Miller's Court fame, allegedly a servant of Mary Jane #1. Both Mary Jane #1 and #2 seemed to help Doctor H. in the abortion trade; but it was Mary Jane Florence (#1) that ended up marrying Rees and landing in prison. Okay, this is complete speculation and bordering on bonkers, but could Mary Jane #3 also be Mary Jane #2? Making her the half-sister and 'servant' of Mary Jane #1? I don't know, and there's no evidence for it, but it's a mini-series that could successfully run opposite Rubenhold's The Five.

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  • R. J. Palmer
    replied
    August 1884: the Emily Cope affair. This was at 11 Quay Street, Dr. Hopkin's office. The reference to other enceinte women going to the same address casts the 1881 Census entry in a new light. Who knows if "Barbara Louisa" was even his daughter, or merely what Hopkins told the census taker?
    Attached Files

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  • R. J. Palmer
    replied
    It should also be remembered that this No. 11 Quay Street where Dr. H and these 4 young ladies were living in 1881 is the same address where Emily Cope was found dead in 1884, and Dr. H and Cope's lover were charged with murder for having conducted an abortion in the so-called "Carmarthen Mystery." Mary Jane Hopkins #2 gave testimony at the inquest, but denied everything, as did Dr. H. I don't recall if Barbara Hopkins was mentioned. Maybe Paul knows?

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  • R. J. Palmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
    Thanks. Her middle name definitely was Louisa though, going by the marriage certificate Nina mentioned and Paul posted?
    Hi Debs. Yes, it would seem to be, if that is indeed the same woman, but then, again, I have no idea what this 1881 entry for Dr. Hopkins represents. It's a strange set-up.

    I don't remember if they found Barbara anywhere else other than this marriage cert and the 1881 entry?

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  • R. J. Palmer
    replied
    1881 Carmarthen. I stand corrected: only two daughters in Carmarthen, none of whom show up in 1871, 1861, etc. Elizabeth Watkins is listed as a visitor; the 'servant' is Sarah Jones. I'm guessing all four of these ladies, 18-22, are pregnant, but then I have a suspicious mind, based on Mary Jane #1's later occupation.
    Attached Files

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  • Debra Arif
    replied
    Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post
    Barbara L. is supposedly born in Swansea in 1861. Her middle name isn't actually given as Louisa in 1881. This based on the 1881 census return for Dr. H.

    Just a reminder for those peeking in... Dr. Hopkins supposedly has TWO daughters, both named Mary Jane. One is in Llannon, t'other in Swansea in 1881. Four daughters in one household, three in the other.
    Thanks. Her middle name definitely was Louisa though, going by the marriage certificate Nina mentioned and Paul posted?

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  • R. J. Palmer
    replied
    Barbara L. is supposedly born in Swansea in 1861. Her middle name isn't actually given as Louisa in 1881. This based on the 1881 census return for Dr. H.

    Just a reminder for those peeking in... Dr. Hopkins supposedly has TWO daughters, both named Mary Jane. One is in Llannon, t'other in Swansea in 1881. Four daughters in one household, three in the other.

    Leave a comment:


  • Debra Arif
    replied
    Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post
    I think it's a coincidence of names, but I could never work out who Barbara was. I suspect she is an "illegitimate" daughter or maybe just a stray that Dr. H 'adopted.' The whole thing is shrouded in mystery. Dr. Hopkins is missing from the family home in 1871 and he may be a bigamist.

    I have Mary Jane Hopkins born in Llannon Carmarthenshire in 1847. You can see her in the 1851 and 1861 and 1871 census, always in Llannon, her feather listed as John Morgan Hopkins, Doctor of Medicine. There are other daughters, Agnes and Helen and Octavia, but no Barbara anywhere in sight. If she's his daughter, she's a 'natural.' But the 1881 has the appearance of a 'waiting in' hospital or abortion clinic if you ask me.
    Thanks.
    What year was Barbara born?

    I'd check back but I keep getting logged out of threads again.

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  • R. J. Palmer
    replied
    I think it's a coincidence of names, but I could never work out who Barbara was. I suspect she is an "illegitimate" daughter or maybe just a stray that Dr. H 'adopted.' The whole thing is shrouded in mystery. Dr. Hopkins is missing from the family home in 1871 and he may be a bigamist.

    I have Mary Jane Hopkins born in Llannon Carmarthenshire in 1847. You can see her in the 1851 and 1861 and 1871 census, always in Llannon, her feather listed as John Morgan Hopkins, Doctor of Medicine. There are other daughters, Agnes and Helen and Octavia, but no Barbara anywhere in sight. If she's his daughter, she's a 'natural.' But the 1881 has the appearance of a 'waiting in' hospital or abortion clinic if you ask me.

    The Barbara Louisa you found is certainly interesting. I wonder what the heck the name of the witness is. Maybe it can afford a clue. Altaquesque? Is that even a name?

    Leave a comment:


  • Debra Arif
    replied
    There was a Barbara Louisa Hopkins registered in Swansea in 1857, mother's maiden name Jones and she also had a sister named Mary Jones Hopkins b 1860.

    Both these girls appear on the 1861 census (with middle names)with parents David and Elizabeth. David Hopkins is a either a boot or book seller and the family live in Swansea.

    Maybe it's just a coincidence of names, or could David be a relation of Dr Hopkins?
    Are these the same girls does anyone think?

    Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
    HOPKINS, BARBARA LOUISA JONES
    GRO Reference: 1857 D Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 489

    HOPKINS, MARY JONES JONES
    GRO Reference: 1860 S Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 500

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul Williams
    replied
    It looks like Barbara Hopkins, the other daughter living with John Morgan Hopkins in 1881 and not found in birth records yet, married in the East End the following year.
    Attached Files

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