Mrs Rees 1888

[Debra Arif]

Well if the passenger list entry is Abby Kelly, which I think it is, it shows Abby did make at least one visit back to England, so there's the possibility she had visited from Kansas before I suppose and was seen in London by John Rees.
It would be too much of a coincidence for the details about Abby Kelly (her father's occupation, and that she frequented the Unity Inn, as Rees stated his employee Mary Kelly did) to match and not be Abby he was talking about wouldn't it?

[Peter Young]

What is interesting though is that some years after the dramatic court case, where he is obviously, and plainly guilty of murdering the young girl in 1884 in a botched abortion, our John Morgan Hopkins is a most welcome VIP guest at the funeral of the local archdeacon.

? Death Mar 1885 Llanelly Age 72 ?
Less than a year?
Just reread Jack the Myth in 4 1/2 hrs, still leaves the old bill in a very bad light..
Good read ne'ertheless AP, regards

[R. J. Palmer]

Last Dance with Mary Jane (Hopkins)

It hasn't been bumped in years, but this is my favorite thread about Mary Kelly, especially due to the contributions by A.P. Wolf, Debra Arif, ‘Sam Flynn,’ Paul Begg, and Robert Linford among other geniuses. It goes back to “Mrs. Rees” the abortionist on trial in 1888 who supposedly had a connection to Mary Kelly back in Swansea.

Please check out this bit about Mrs. Rees’s father, the abortionist Dr. John Morgan Hopkins, a kinder, gentler version of Dr. Cream. It’s something very odd I noticed under his entry in the 1881 Wales Census. Carmarthenshire, Carmarthen St. Peter.

Clearly the same man. Physician, right age (66), widowed, born Fownehope, Hereford, same as the abortionist. He is easily traced backwards to 1851, 1861, etc.

So far so good.

Yet now his “daughter” Mary Jane “Hopkins” (later Mrs. Rees) is listed as 21 (she should be 34) along with another imaginary daughter named “Barbara” and, (O lucky man!?) still another two young women, one supposedly a servant and another listed as “a visitor.”

There is clearly something rotten in the state of Carmarthenshire.

Our semi-mad abortionist has four women living with him, all between the ages of 18-22, and two definitely appear to be imaginary “daughters” that do not exist elsewhere. Nowhere can we see “Barbara Hopkins” listed in the previous entries for the family home, and the real Mary Jane Hopkins, his real daughter (the later Mrs. Rees of MJK fame) has an entry of her own in the 1881 census. She is still back in Llannon, where she should be, living with her siblings and is listed, appropriately as a “physician’s daughter,” with the appropriate age of 34.

I smell a rat, and no meager rat, but large wharf rat.

So the $34K question. Who is this “Mary Jane Hopkins” age 21? Are we supposed to believe the good doctor has two daughters with the same name, and one who suddenly appears out of thin air? Either Dr. Hopkins is lying and is running a brothel, an abortion clinic, or a private harem, or he’s a bigamist. I don’t see any other options. I suggest Option #2. A clinic for poor Welsh girls who found themselves in the family way.


Now, I'll open a glass of stout, leave off the "s" and sing "Those were the days" by Mary J. Hopkin. Have a good night.

[Howard Brown]

Thank you for bumping this thread up, Roger....

On a side note, Gary Barnett mentioned how Kelly was named 'Mary Jane Lawrence' in the newspapers from time to time ( almost always American papers ) the other day.
In the very first post that A.P. posted, the Rees woman's full name is listed as Mary Jane Florence Rees. 'Florence' and 'Lawrence' sound alike...its probably nothing, but I thought I'd mention it.

[R. J. Palmer]

Hi Howard. I will try to get the census entry up later, but if you get a chance check it out. Dr. John Morgan Hopkins, 1881, Wales.

If "Mary Jane" alias Hopkins, 21, is his daughter, I am His holiness the Pope! And who is 'Barbara'?

So we have a Mary Jane from Wales, age 21, staying in the home of an abortionist in 1881, evidently under an alias, and a Mary Jane "Kelly" is later stated to have a connection to Dr. Hopkins' daughter (though this was later denied).

Strange happenings in Wales. I will drop by in the morning. Ciao.

[Howard Brown]

R.J.

Nina asked me to post this :

This Barbara Louisa Hopkin married a man named Andrew Burch Waton, June 2nd, 1882 in Tower Hamlets, Bromley. Her father is listed as Dr. John Morgan Hopkins.

(From Ancestry )

[R. J. Palmer]

R.J.

Nina asked me to post this :

This Barbara Louisa Hopkin married a man named Andrew Burch Waton, June 2nd, 1882 in Tower Hamlets, Bromley. Her father is listed as Dr. John Morgan Hopkins.

(From Ancestry )

Hi Howard. That's interesting as heck (thanks, Nina). Have her punch in William Lott Hopkins in the 1871 Wales census. That will take her to the family home. No Barbara to be found; she should be alive in 1861, but isn't listed there, either.

She doesn't show up (that I can see) until after the death of Dr. H's wife. Was Dr. Hopkins a bigamist? He also is missing in 1871. And, for that matter, would even a bigamist name two daughters Mary Jane? This may take some sorting, but something is not kosher. Ciao.

[Jerry Dunlop]

R.J.

Nina asked me to post this :

This Barbara Louisa Hopkin married a man named Andrew Burch Waton, June 2nd, 1882 in Tower Hamlets, Bromley. Her father is listed as Dr. John Morgan Hopkins.

(From Ancestry )

Hi Howard

Interestingly I found an entry for Barbara Louisa Hopkins with another marriage in 1879 in Swansea

R.J

The two women visitors in 1881 were Elizabeth Watkins (22) born in Gloucester and Sarah Jones (18) born in Llangunner, Carmarthenshire.

[R. J. Palmer]

So, in the 1881 Census, Dr. Hopkins is listed at Number 11 Quay street, Carmarthen. You can find advertisements in various local papers in the 1870s listing this address, with Dr. Hopkins peddling some quack medicine called WHITE'S PILL OF HEALTH. Among other things, it prevents embarrassing 'wind.'

Meanwhile, in one town in Wales he has a daughter named "Mary Jane", aged 34.

In another town in Wales he has another daughter named "Mary Jane," aged 21.

Reminds me of a case in the U.S. of a well-known news anchor that, when he died, it was discovered he had two families in two different cities.

And 7 years later, 1888, it is reported that a third Mary Jane ("Kelly"), found dead in Miller's Court, was once in the service of Mary Jane #1, back in Wales.

The last time I saw this much Mary Jane in one spot was during a reggae concert in Seattle.

[Jerry Dunlop]

Hopefully not confusing things here.

1861

David Hopkins (36). born Swansea
Elizabeth (wife) (28) born Bristol
Margaret (dau) (8) born Glamorgan
Barbara (dau) (3) born Glamorgan

1871

Elizabeth Hopkins (46). born Bristol
Barbara Louisa Hopkins (13) born Swansea
Mary Jones Hopkins (10) born Swansea
Richard Hopkins (0) born Swansea

[Jerry Dunlop]

Haven’t had time to check, but did Dr Hopkins have a brother named David and he took on that family after a death? David doesn’t show up in the 1871 census with Elizabeth but she also doesn’t show as a widow.

[Paul Williams]

Hi all,

I wrote about Dr Hopkins and his family in Ripperologist earlier this year. Very interested that the marriage of Barbara has been traced. Hopkins split from his original family and lived with Mary (later Mary Rees) and (in 1881 at least) Barbara. Although he described both as his daughters I didn't find a record of either birth, all the children from his marriage were registered. He is known to have had an illegimate child earlier in his career.

[Paul Williams]

Barbara's spouse was Andrew Burch Watson, a clerk whose father was Alexander Andrew Watson, a hotel keeper.

There was an Andrew Alexander Burch Watson born in Plymouth in 1858, son of Andrew Watson and Louisa Burch. In the 1871 census Andrew senior is described as an army corporal born Ireland.

The 1881 census lists a railway clerk called Andrew Watson, born Plymouth, c. 1858, lodging at 7 Clive Crescent Cardiff. Andrew B Watson was still living in Cardiff in 1891, promoted to railway inspector but described as single. His parents were living with him, with his father described as an army pensioner.

[R. J. Palmer]

I wrote about Dr Hopkins and his family in Ripperologist earlier this year. Very interested that the marriage of Barbara has been traced. Hopkins split from his original family and lived with Mary (later Mary Rees) and (in 1881 at least) Barbara. Although he described both as his daughters I didn't find a record of either birth, all the children from his marriage were registered. He is known to have had an illegimate child earlier in his career.

Hi Paul. Thanks. I'll have to track down that article; I haven't seen it.

There's odd things going on with 'Rees,' isn't there? In the 1861 returns, there is already a 'Margaret Rees,' aged 17, living in the Hopkins family home. Listed as a servant. Could be a name coincidence. But the Mary Jane Florence Rees, convicted for "illegal operations," and identified in the press as Dr. Hopkins' daughter (and who ends up in Woking Prison in 1891) is the mysterious "Mary Jane Hopkins" No. 2 in the 1881 Census, and not the elder daughter, Mary Jane Hopkins No. 1, that we see in the family home in 1851, 1861, etc. This younger, perhaps illegitimate, daughter is the one who supposedly married John Rees, who, in turn, supposedly knew Mary Kelly.

So the family's denial that Mary Jane Hopkins knew Mary Kelly of Miller's Court could be based on the confusion that Dr. Hopkins actually had TWO daughters named Mary Jane...

...or at least I think so.

[Sam Flynn]

The last time I saw this much Mary Jane in one spot was during a reggae concert in Seattle.

Nice one