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The Morgenstern Brothers, Felix Family & 79 Pennington Street

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  • Could Bertha Blum be Elisabeth Bluma/Boeku/Morgenstern?
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    • 79 Pennington Street

      In a private baptism on 20th Feb 1885, the same year that twins Louisa and Elizabeth Morgenstern were born at 79 Pennington Street, John Joseph Blair, born 14th December 1884, was baptised. His parents were named as John and Jane Blair of 79 Pennington Street.

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      • Hi Debs


        Maybe he was from the Blairs of Salmon(s) Lane in 91 and 01. He'd have been born in Scotland. But in that case, his dad was James. Mother would be Jane Blair nee Glass.

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        • Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
          Hi Debs


          Maybe he was from the Blairs of Salmon(s) Lane in 91 and 01. He'd have been born in Scotland. But in that case, his dad was James. Mother would be Jane Blair nee Glass.
          Thanks Robert.
          I think John Joseph may have died soon after his baptism in 1885, which could be why he had a private baptism in the first place if he was an ill child. I can't seem to locate John and Jane though apart from an older couple living in Edmonton who don't seem to fit other than name-wise.

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          • Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
            Thanks Robert.
            I think John Joseph may have died soon after his baptism in 1885, which could be why he had a private baptism in the first place if he was an ill child. I can't seem to locate John and Jane though apart from an older couple living in Edmonton who don't seem to fit other than name-wise.
            Very interesting, Debs. Do you know the occupation of John Senior?

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            • This looks like another ten months/ten years thing.


              JJB was in the baptism registers twice.

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              • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                Very interesting, Debs. Do you know the occupation of John Senior?
                He was a labourer, Gary.

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                • Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                  This looks like another ten months/ten years thing.


                  JJB was in the baptism registers twice.
                  Yes, the GRO has 10 years as age at death instead of 10 months but the Free BMD death index has his age as 0.

                  I thought that was a bit odd being in twice. Why would he be in the baptism register twice I wonder? The entry later in the register doesn't give his date of birth like the first entry does.

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                  • Hi Debs


                    It's two different volumes, isn't it?


                    A bit of a puzzle. On the one without the date of birth, even the parish isn't mentioned. Also, the one above occurred five days after it.

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                    • There was a John Blair, a 21-year-old Glaswegian labourer, living in St Georges Chambers in 1881.

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                      • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                        There was a John Blair, a 21-year-old Glaswegian labourer, living in St Georges Chambers in 1881.
                        Yes, I looked at that one and thought it a possible too.

                        I looked at the 1883 Chelsea marriage between John Blair and Jessie Lee as a possible marriage. Jessie was born in Scotland too and was living at the couple's marriage address of 38 Lower George St Chelsea in 1881 with her mother Helen. Jessie is the Scottish form of Jean and often interchanged with Jane and Janet. A couple of snags on that ID are that John Blair was a seaman and in 1911 Jessie has one child living with her and says she has only have had one child who is still living.

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                        • Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                          Hi Debs


                          It's two different volumes, isn't it?


                          A bit of a puzzle. On the one without the date of birth, even the parish isn't mentioned. Also, the one above occurred five days after it.
                          Probably, Robert. I said the same register because the first entry with the date on was on page 88 entry 697 and then I just flipped through the register page by page, I got to page 137 and the page after that was another page 99 with the second entry at the bottom with nothing to indicate this was a different register.

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                          • Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                            Yes, I looked at that one and thought it a possible too.

                            I looked at the 1883 Chelsea marriage between John Blair and Jessie Lee as a possible marriage. Jessie was born in Scotland too and was living at the couple's marriage address of 38 Lower George St Chelsea in 1881 with her mother Helen. Jessie is the Scottish form of Jean and often interchanged with Jane and Janet. A couple of snags on that ID are that John Blair was a seaman and in 1911 Jessie has one child living with her and says she has only have had one child who is still living.
                            I also spotted a death for a 24-y-o John Blair in ST G E in 1884.

                            BTW, I think it's only the online GRO index that has John Joseph's age at death as 10 years. The printed version has 0.

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                            • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                              I also spotted a death for a 24-y-o John Blair in ST G E in 1884.

                              BTW, I think it's only the online GRO index that has John Joseph's age at death as 10 years. The printed version has 0.
                              Yeah, I mentioned the free BMD version has the age as zero which showed me 10 in the GRO transcript was months rather than years in that case, similar to what happened with the Bachert infant deaths on the GRO.

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                              • just to let you all know, i contacted St Ptricks Roman Catholic Cemetery in Leytonstone to ask for anymore information about John Morgensterns burial.

                                They replied to let me know that he had been buried in a public grave, an area where he was buried with others he wasnt related to. This type of grave are reused over time and it has been the case at St Patricks.

                                He was buried on 30/06/1900 and actually recorded as John Morgenstein. the fee for his burial was 1.05

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