Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How JTR got to MJK

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How JTR got to MJK

    How did JTR enter MJKs room? I've always thought that JTR was the person Hutchinson saw walking with MJK. Anderson said a jew was the only person to see the ripper so this couldn't be Hutchinson right? I've also read the theory that the ripper entered the room while mjk was asleep. Was he looking for a victim and wonder into mitre sq and see mjk in her room alone? Since the window was broken he could see in but didn't mjk cover the hole with a blanket to keep the cold out? I'm a newby and hoping someone with more knowledge can help me understand. Do you think the ripper entered with mjk or snuck in while she slept?

  • #2
    MJK's room wasn't in Mitre Square but in Millers Court in Dorset Street one and a half miles away. The general opinion is that she invited her killer in, though its possible but unlikely that the killer gained access via the broken window pane. The pane would have been about 6" by 9" and apparently still held the remains of the glass. That would make it very risky to reach in in the dark and open the door without being cut by the broken glass. Also there was a risk of disturbing MJK whilst fumbling in the dark for the door handle or key.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Adam

      Like Philip, I think it very unlikely that JtR would or could sneak into MJK’s room.

      Anyone who knew of the broken glass could reach through and open the door, but it’s a lot easier in theory than doing it in the dark for the first time without making any noise.
      Unless one thinks JtR to have known MJK of course.

      There was a cry of murder that night, and she wasn’t killed asleep, so that could fit with her waking as the killer fumbles at the door.

      But the most likely scenario is that she brought him home herself.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Adam Gramling View Post
        How did JTR enter MJKs room? I've always thought that JTR was the person Hutchinson saw walking with MJK. Anderson said a jew was the only person to see the ripper so this couldn't be Hutchinson right? I've also read the theory that the ripper entered the room while mjk was asleep. Was he looking for a victim and wonder into mitre sq and see mjk in her room alone? Since the window was broken he could see in but didn't mjk cover the hole with a blanket to keep the cold out? I'm a newby and hoping someone with more knowledge can help me understand. Do you think the ripper entered with mjk or snuck in while she slept?
        There's actually more to that story than is commonly debated.

        There was another witness, a Mrs Kennedy, who told the press she saw Mary Kelly outside the Britannia pub about 3:00am, talking to a man.
        So, given that estimated times are precisely that, estimates, it's possible Kelly ventured out again after her liaison with the Hutchinson suspect.
        Mrs McCarthy also told the press she had a customer that night who, before the murder was known, told her that there was a 'funny' man in the court.
        Bowyer, McCarthy's assistant, saw a man in the court who fit the suspect description at about 3:00am.
        Sarah Lewis watched a man & woman walk up the court, while another man stood in Dorset St. opposite the court watching them. The man standing there was presumably Hutchinson.
        It was also reported that the police re-interviewed the residents of the court after they received Hutchinson's story. It appears they were told Kelly had been seen out on the street after 1:00 am.

        The point here being, there's no need to look for any clandestine entry into Kelly's room while she slept. She doesn't appear to have been asleep, but seen by several people out on the streets plying her trade. So, most likely her last customer was someone after the Astrachan suspect, she brought back to her room and that person was her killer.
        Regards, Jon S.
        "
        The theory that the murderer is a lunatic is dispelled by the opinion given to the police by an expert in the treatment of lunacy patients......."If he's insane
        " observed the medical authority, "he's a good deal sharper than those who are not".
        Reynolds Newspaper, 4 Nov. 1888.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yeah sorry Miller's court. Thanks for the answers

          Comment


          • #6
            I think it's important to take most witness statements with a large pinch of salt. Let's not forget that there were people who claimed to have seen Mary alive and well, hours after she had already been killed. This was also a well known slum, where unsavoury and odd characters would've been the norm. Much hinges on whether you believe Hutchinson or not, but if Mary had taken multiple men home that night, you can understand why those who had been with her earlier, before the killer, were reluctant to come forward. Personally I concur, though, that Mary almost certainly let the killer into her room voluntarily, thinking he was a client.

            Cheers,
            Adam.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi, and welcome, Adam Gramling.

              Writers have sensationalized the saga of JtR for over a century. Thus we have MJK at the apex of the murders, the broken window, the lost or stolen key.....etc. All these things have been thrashed out in many discussions. There are many reasons to believe Mary took the killer to her room.

              One interesting discussion noted that other women, Mrs. Prater for instance, laid down to sleep fully dressed. Mary was reportedly found wearing a chemise or possibly nude. Her clothes were said to be folded on a chair.

              It was said to be a cold night and there was a broken window in the room. Mary's bed coverings were a sheet and thin blanket. It does not make sense that she would have stripped to her chemise and tried to sleep under such inadequate coverings on a cold night. (Yes, the Ripper was said to have built a "fierce fire", but did Mary have enough fuel to have such a fire for her personal warmth? Remains of clothing were found in the ashes.)

              It was also the custom to push a table or something against the locked door. Mrs. Prater's information again. I remember asking if Mary might have been drunk enough that she was lax with security but others here believe she would have taken all precautions, no matter how drunk she was.

              A woman stripping to her chemise and a man stripping all but his shirt seems to be one way prostitution was practiced when there was an actual room with a bed.

              Mary seems to have been on the right side of the bed, toward the wall. It sounds to me like that was her position before she was attacked. Does that indicate she expected or had a partner in the bed? Maybe. (On the other hand I find comfort in sleeping alone close to the wall. If it was very cold, as in Mary's room, the wall might also add to warmth.)

              Considering clothing once again, women's clothing of that time was difficult to take on and off. No elastic and no zippers. Lots of ties, hooks, buttons. A woman in Mary's situation had little reason to undress for bed. It was reported that her clothes were folded on a chair so that indicates she was not trying to protect her garments from wrinkling, something that women in better situations might consider. Nor was her clothing spread out before the fire to dry damp garments.

              I see no reason for her to undress for bed on a cold night but I see reason in her undressing for a client. She needed rent money and surely a romp in a bed was worth more than a knee trembler in an ally. If we learn anything from Hutchinson, it is Mary's likely method of doing business, "Can you lend me sixpence?" That is more than the penny or two other victims were seeking for a night's doss money.
              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

              Comment

              Working...
              X