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  • Kelly family of Halkett Street, Cardiff

    I'm starting this thread on behalf of Pat Marshall, who writes:

    I have been looking into certain Kelly families that may or may not be connected to Mary Kelly.

    I would really like any assistance you can give me on these two women.

    Mary Kelly born c 1858 born in Liverpool and Ann Kelly 1865 (sisters) born in Cardiff in census below.

    1871 census. Cardiff Union Industrial Schools, Ely, Llandaff.
    Inmates
    Mary Kelly, 13, b. Liverpool,
    Julia Kelly, 11, born Llandaff
    Bridget Kelly, 9, born Llandaff
    Ann Kelly, 6, born Llandaff.

    These were the daughters of Dennis Kelly of Halkett street Cardiff. It seems they were placed in this school when their father was arrested for unlawful wounding. Later two of them were caught stealing in Tredegar, where they appeared to live for some time, and Julia was sentence to time in a reformatory.

    Their father Dennis was in and out of prison for offending usually when he was drunk and their mother Mary died around this time.I have traced Julia and Bridget after 1881 but I cannot find Mary or Ann in the 1881 census.

    They had an older sister Margaret who married David Grace. As I always start with a blank page I did not realise things had been found so I apologise if I missed anybody's finds.

    The following was written in 2014 by Anna Morris “The LDS site for a while kept trying to tell me David Grace--husband of Halkett Street Margaret Kelly--immigrated to America but I could not sort it all out and am not sure what was proposed was correct. David and Margaret disappeared from the news in 1878 and I cannot find them on any of my poor genealogy sources after that date.

    What I did find of interest was that Margaret Kelly and David Grace moved to St George in the East by the 1881 census and were living in St Georges Court, William Street. By 1891 they had moved to Deptford south of the river. I have contacted a descendant who knew very little about them but knew they were a bit wild back then. He told me I could share what little he knew but did not want to be contacted about the Kellys by other researchers. I can tell you what he shared with me but it was nothing from Wales unfortunately.

    So if we could find what happened to sisters Mary Kelly and Ann Kelly we could strike this family off the list. …....or not ?
    Pat has provided two files of detailed notes on this family, which I've put in the Resources section of the site:

    Timeline of the Kelly family of Halkett Street

    Daniel Kelly and family of Halkett Street Cardiff

  • #2
    Quite a bit about this family has been posted here before, but (unless I've missed a lot of it) Pat has added considerably to what had been found previously, so I think it's well worth looking at the files of details.

    This concerns a Mary Kelly from Cardiff - whose family background it would be understandable for her to want to disguise - who was rather older than the victim claimed to be, but who seems to have been last seen in 1879 - around the time the victim's claimed marriage would have taken place - and who turns out to have had a family connection in St George's in the East, so I think it would be interesting to know what happened to her.

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    • #3
      Very interesting. I followed up the Grace connection and discovered that David Grace’s occupation in 1871 was supposedly that of a ‘mason’s labourer’.

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      • #4
        The GRO birth register confirms the maiden name of Edward Grace, born 1880, was Kelly. The 1901 census gives his place of birth as Shadwell.

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        • #5
          I would just like to thank Chris for setting this up for me. I have great difficulty doing this so I asked if he would help. Also If I have overlooked anyones previous work I really do apologise by all means mention this here.... As I stated I have to start with a blank page or I get totally sidetracked and end up searching all over the place...Pat

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          • #6
            Hi Pat
            Thanks for posting all this research to the forums.
            I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to look at Mary and Ann yet since you mentioned this family to me recently on FB. I'm still working hard on the A to Z but I do find this family, and your current research, very interesting and worth pursuing. Hopefully some of the members will be able to join in and help you out.
            I did some work on the soldier Dennis is few years back which may be in the archives somewhere.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
              Hi Pat
              Thanks for posting all this research to the forums.
              I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to look at Mary and Ann yet since you mentioned this family to me recently on FB. I'm still working hard on the A to Z but I do find this family, and your current research, very interesting and worth pursuing. Hopefully some of the members will be able to join in and help you out.
              I did some work on the soldier Dennis is few years back which may be in the archives somewhere.
              Thanks. The place where I have seen your notes on him is here on Casebook. Perhaps there is something on this site too, but I can't see it at the moment:
              https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...291#post417291

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post

                Thanks. The place where I have seen your notes on him is here on Casebook. Perhaps there is something on this site too, but I can't see it at the moment:
                https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...291#post417291
                Thanks, Chris.
                I seem to have put a little bit on this thread with some interesting discussion from Anna and Gareth too. Don't know if it's of any help.

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                • #9
                  Debra if the soldier Dennis was son of John and Mary (Daniels brother) Where is Daniels son Dennis ? Another one disappeared....

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pat Marshall View Post
                    Debra if the soldier Dennis was son of John and Mary (Daniels brother) Where is Daniels son Dennis ? Another one disappeared....
                    Not sure Pat. At the time I was just interested in the soldier who said on his army records that his father was John Kelly of Halkett Street. And this was the soldier who was at one time sent to an asylum.

                    I'm hoping to be able to get up to speed with your research over the weekend.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                      Very interesting. I followed up the Grace connection and discovered that David Grace’s occupation in 1871 was supposedly that of a ‘mason’s labourer’.
                      Thanks. Would that have been from his marriage? I see he is just a labourer in the 1871 census.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                        The GRO birth register confirms the maiden name of Edward Grace, born 1880, was Kelly. The 1901 census gives his place of birth as Shadwell.
                        Thanks for this too. I'll just post that 1901 census entry, as I didn't have it:

                        148 Milton Court Rd, St Paul Deptford
                        Edward Grace / Head / S / 21 / General Labourer / [worker] / London Shadwell
                        Ellen do / sister / S / 24 / / / / Wales [added: .. not stated] / Blind
                        Edith do / sister / S / 17 / Charing / / London Deptford

                        The birth of Edith was registered in the 2nd quarter of 1883 (as Edith Ann) at Greenwich (which registration district included St Nicholas and St Paul, Deptford), so that would put the move from St George's in the East to Deptford between 1881 and 1883.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post

                          Thanks, Chris.
                          I seem to have put a little bit on this thread with some interesting discussion from Anna and Gareth too. Don't know if it's of any help.
                          Thanks. And that leads to a thread on Casebook with a lot of information on it:
                          https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...merick-the-key

                          One interesting thing I hadn't seen before was the Liverpool Roman Catholic baptism you found (Mary daughter of Daniel being said to have been born in Liverpool in the 1871 census, though in Ireland in 1861). This is from Our Lady of Reconciliation de La Salette:

                          MaryJaneKellyBaptismLiverpool1857.jpg

                          So that is Mary Jane Kelly, born 18 April 1857 and baptised 26 April, daughter of Daniel and Mary Kelly (formerly Brennon), godmother Mary [?]Hogan.

                          That would be a little bit late for Mary the daughter of Daniel of Cardiff, as it would make her 3 (nearly 4) instead of 6 at the date of the 1861 census. Otherwise it would fit, with the exception of the mother's maiden name, which seems to be written "Brennon", but which I suppose is Brennan. Although it's not absolutely definite, there are birth registrations for Dennis and Bridget in Cardiff, which would nearly match Daniel's children (both one year out), and the mother's maiden name is Murphy/Murphey.

                          But I couldn't get any further. I can't find a matching birth registration for this child with mother's maiden name Brennan in Liverpool (there is a Jane in 1855 and a James 1864, and a Catherine in 1869 in Birkenhead, and others with MMN Brennan in various parts of the country but not in Wales). And I couldn't find this family in the 1861 or 1871 censuses, but there are so many Kellys that they could be lurking there somewhere.

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                          • #14
                            Just looking at the other end of the timeline for Mary Kelly of Halket Street, apparently the last sightings of her are convictions in Tredegar for stealing in 1875 and in May 1879. By October 1879 her sister Julia was back in Halket Street - in fact doing her best to destroy Halket Street - apparently along with her brother Denis. And by the date of the 1881 census Daniel is living there with his mother Elizabeth and his daughter Julia.

                            But Mary is not mentioned. I'd have thought a possibility would be that she stayed in Tredegar and perhaps lived with a man and took his surname without actually getting married. That would make her difficult to trace. It's a shame the GRO index of births isn't searchable by mother's maiden name (without specifying the father's surname), as that might help. Otherwise the only thing I can think of is searching the 1881 and 1891 censuses for women of the right age born in either Ireland or Liverpool, and then searching for their children's births. But that would probably be quiite a task. I wonder if anyone has any other ideas on how to investigate that possibility?

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                            • #15
                              There was a violent anti-Irish riot in Tredegar in 1882. A number of Irish homes were ransacked and burnt and subsequently many Irish families left the area.

                              A family I traced left Tredegar just before the riot and moved first to Llangattock and eventually to the East End. En route they turned up at the Abergavenny workhouse.Their name was Enright.

                              The main employer in Tredegar at the time was the iron works, which is interesting in the light of Joe Barnett’s claim that MJK’s father was a gaffer in an iron works.

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