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  • Do Torsos tell a tale?

    I found this absolutely absorbing quote from the 'Journals of Collin Brooks' published in 1932, and I wondered what others might think of his reasoning?

    'Torso murders are an obvious by-product of homosexuality.'

  • #2
    Originally posted by A.P. Wolf
    I found this absolutely absorbing quote from the 'Journals of Collin Brooks' published in 1932, and I wondered what others might think of his reasoning?

    'Torso murders are an obvious by-product of homosexuality.'
    Hello AP

    The context of the quote would seem to establish, per the page found on Google books that he was talking about a specific torso murder being a by-product of a homosexual affair rather than talking generally about torso murders.

    The same sentence that you show cut off prematurely, cut off in its prime just like a torso, goes on to say that he was talking specifically about "the murder of a pantry-boy by another crazed homosexual necrophilist of twenty-one. . . ."

    Specifically what you misquoted is a statement about salacious press coverage and talks about "the torso murder, which is an obvious bye-product of homosexuality, the murder of a pantry-boy by another crazed homosexual necrophilist of twenty-one. . . ."

    Chris
    Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
    https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

    Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
    Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by A.P. Wolf
      I found this absolutely absorbing quote from the 'Journals of Collin Brooks' published in 1932, and I wondered what others might think of his reasoning?

      'Torso murders are an obvious by-product of homosexuality.'
      All I think can be said is that a torso murderer is willing to get intimate with the body. (I'm not using intimate as a sexual term.) He's probably a washer and enjoys the process of rearranging / modifying the body parts and he is obviously not afraid to do some storage for a period of time.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by SirRobertAnderson
        All I think can be said is that a torso murderer is willing to get intimate with the body. (I'm not using intimate as a sexual term.) He's probably a washer and enjoys the process of rearranging / modifying the body parts and he is obviously not afraid to do some storage for a period of time.
        Yes but read my post and look at the page on Google books which better establishes what Collin Brooks was talking about.

        Chris
        Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
        https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

        Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
        Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

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        • #5
          I might be wrong Chris, but my impression was that he was talking generally about torso murders, and then went on specifically to the pantry boy murder, and then went on to the bevy of men and women found in bed together in some kind of orgy.
          Your reasoning seems to imply that the orgy would have ended up as a group torso murder?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by A.P. Wolf
            I might be wrong Chris, but my impression was that he was talking generally about torso murders, and then went on specifically to the pantry boy murder, and then went on to the bevy of men and women found in bed together in some kind of orgy.
            Your reasoning seems to imply that the orgy would have ended up as a group torso murder?
            Hello AP

            You say, "Your reasoning seems to imply that the orgy would have ended up as a group torso murder?"

            Hold on there, matey. No I'm not saying that at all. I merely wanted to point out that it's not clear that Collin Brooks was saying that torso murders were linked to homosexuality as you first stated he said.

            The relevant journal entry is rather complex and mostly seems to deal with salacious news stories talking about homosexual activity that happened to involve a torso murder.

            It's not apparent to me that your first idea that Brooks was saying that torso murders in general are a by-product of homosexuality is what he meant.

            Rather he seems to be pointing to this particular torso murder being a product of a homosexual triste that went bad, though I agree his wording is not clear.

            It is after all a journal jotting not a clearly written article -- the man was a journalist, and presumably if he was really saying that homosexuality leads to torso murders he would have said it more clearly.

            Chris
            Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
            https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

            Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
            Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

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            • #7
              Does anyone think that Buck Ruxton was a homosexual?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Stan Reid
                Does anyone think that Buck Ruxton was a homosexual?
                Weren't the people he carved up females? Have not seen anything to indicate he was homosexual but I may have missed something. Considering that gays of the day (1930's) hid in the closet, who knows. Since he is thought to have been "obsessively jealous" I should say he was more likely hetero.

                C
                Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Chris,

                  To my knowledge, he wasn't gay. That was my point. I'd ask the same about Cecil England.

                  I've heard people say that the Cleveland Torso Slayer was probably homosexual but he killed both men and women so I don't see the connection really.

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                  • #10
                    Hi Stan

                    Of the some thirteen victims attributed to the Cleveland Torso killer, I believe something like 90% of them were male, though, weren't they? I believe it would be a good bet that the killer was homosexual, particularly since we know that Edward Andrassy, one of the first victims, was gay.

                    Chris
                    Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                    https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                    Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                    Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I believe that 6 of the 13 were female so it was a pretty even split in Cleveland.

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                      • #12
                        Andrassy may have been bisexual, but, according to his ex-wife he was "anything but" homosexual. This from Badal's book. He was also a petty criminal and any purported gay activity may have simply been a ruse to attract what he would have considered an easy mark.

                        Personally, I think there was more than one killer working those crimes, and at least one was probably homosexual since the genitals were cut off of several victims. (Of course, drug cartel killers do the same thing today and are most likely not homosexual,) But some victims were not so mutilated, and there were reportedly at least 5 female victims in the series.

                        If torsos tell a tale, do they do so in body language?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stan Reid
                          I believe that 6 of the 13 were female so it was a pretty even split in Cleveland.
                          I would have to double-check but I had thought the only females were Florence "Eve" Polillo and the so-called "Lady in the Lake" found early on.

                          C
                          Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                          https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                          Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                          Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Chris G.
                            I would have to double-check but I had thought the only females were Florence "Eve" Polillo and the so-called "Lady in the Lake" found early on.
                            There was also a second lady of the lake, the black woman (Rose Wallace) found in the burlap bag (an assumed victim), and another woman whose dismembered parts were never identified. This is at least 5 female victims, but, like you, I'll have to check to see if there were any others. Stan may well be correct; it's been too long since I studied those murders. I'm sure Badal would know.

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                            • #15
                              Okay, thanks, Stan and Tim.

                              C
                              Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                              https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                              Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                              Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                              Comment

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