Do Torsos tell a tale?

[Stan Reid]

One of the last victims found on the waste ground as a skeleton was female I believe and there was the one found in the Cuyahoga plus the two in the lake then Polillo as well as (?)Wallace.

Myself, I think that one killer murdered almost all, if not all, of the Butcher's Dozen and likely more than 13 total.

[AP Wolf]

I remember years ago having a long and protracted discussion - it went on for about a year - on an internet site with an American gentleman named Burgho, who was I must say an absolute genuis when it comes to the discussion and dissection of serial killers... and that discussion was the Cleveland Torso murders. The conclusion we both reached at that time was that the killer was most likely a closet homosexual.
As some of you might know I have often speculated that the majority of men who kill women are in fact repressed and supressed homosexuals; and when it comes to Torso killings (that have no basis in failed abortions) then I'm even more convinced that we could be looking at the misguided and chaotic energy of men confused by their sexual identity.

[Chris G.]

I remember years ago having a long and protracted discussion - it went on for about a year - on an internet site with an American gentleman named Burgho, who was I must say an absolute genuis when it comes to the discussion and dissection of serial killers... and that discussion was the Cleveland Torso murders. The conclusion we both reached at that time was that the killer was most likely a closet homosexual.
As some of you might know I have often speculated that the majority of men who kill women are in fact repressed and supressed homosexuals; and when it comes to Torso killings (that have no basis in failed abortions) then I'm even more convinced that we could be looking at the misguided and chaotic energy of men confused by their sexual identity.

Kind of a twisted version of Julius Caesar's old adage: They came, they sawed, they conquered.

Chris

[Stan Reid]

And to start off the quasquicentennial I'll mention the torso victim found in Paris during November of 1886. Didn't George Chapman pass through there?

[Chris G.]

And to start off the quasquicentennial I'll mention the torso victim found in Paris during November of 1886. Didn't George Chapman pass through there?

George Chapman passed through a lot of places. He certainly poisoned his common-law wives in London. . . but did he ever use a knife to kill or carve up anyone? There's no proof that he did.

Chris

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Stan. How similar was the Paris torso case to the London cases of 88 and 89?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Stan Reid]

Hi Tom:

According to the report, head, legs and one arm were missing. I'm just going by the older edition of the A-Z. It sounds quite like Whitehall and Pinchin to me.

[Howard Brown]

Bump Up

Noticed a few folks checking A.P.'s old thread out...and it is a good one.

[Pipeman]

I remember years ago having a long and protracted discussion - it went on for about a year - on an internet site with an American gentleman named Burgho, who was I must say an absolute genuis when it comes to the discussion and dissection of serial killers... and that discussion was the Cleveland Torso murders. The conclusion we both reached at that time was that the killer was most likely a closet homosexual.
As some of you might know I have often speculated that the majority of men who kill women are in fact repressed and supressed homosexuals; and when it comes to Torso killings (that have no basis in failed abortions) then I'm even more convinced that we could be looking at the misguided and chaotic energy of men confused by their sexual identity.

AP I was reading some of the discussion you mentioned with Burgho about the Mad Butcher on the casebook archive. He seems to be knowledgable about the case and on Merylo. http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4927/10741.html
He mentions a chicken farmer in this thread. You should invite him here

[Anna Morris]

Do torsos tell a tale? Were there more "torso killings" before people had cars? Can we figure disposal needs into remains becoming torsos?

Of course dismemberment killings still happen and we might argue that the last horrific part of the Black Dahlia murder was BECAUSE someone had a car.

But even today, some parts of the world depend on cars more than others. People in New York City tend not to own cars. I do not believe car ownership is as strong in Europe as it is in the U.S.

That said, I live in the west. Miles and miles of beautiful roads and freeways with not much between cities. Most of us have a car or two or three. There have been dismemberment murders in the west but I think maybe less than the notorious sprees such as Cleveland, Victorian London, etc.

[Sean Crundall]

Do torsos tell a tale? Were there more "torso killings" before people had cars? Can we figure disposal needs into remains becoming torsos?

Of course dismemberment killings still happen and we might argue that the last horrific part of the Black Dahlia murder was BECAUSE someone had a car.

But even today, some parts of the world depend on cars more than others. People in New York City tend not to own cars. I do not believe car ownership is as strong in Europe as it is in the U.S.

That said, I live in the west. Miles and miles of beautiful roads and freeways with not much between cities. Most of us have a car or two or three. There have been dismemberment murders in the west but I think maybe less than the notorious sprees such as Cleveland, Victorian London, etc.

Hi Anna,

Very interesting points.

Attempting to determine whether or not torso murders were more prevalent before the advent of motor vehicles is difficult, but perhaps not impossible to discover.

I would imagine that most criminals would want to distance themselves from the scene of their crime(s), but of course this isn't always the case.

The creation of motor vehicles, followed by motorways and freeways, has enabled criminals to distance themselves from their crimes, although we can't accurately determine how far a murderer may have been prepared to travel, say, using a horse and cart, or indeed a motor vehicle, to dispose of his victim's remains.

I think "disposal needs" were paramount, especially in the days before the widespread use of motor vehicles. Dismemberment could have been a feature of the killer's pathology, rather than an act carried out to facilitate transportation of his victim's remains.

My regards,

Sean.