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  • #16
    Monday the 25th will mark the 125th anniversary of the attack on Annie.

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    • #17
      Allow me to resurrect this thread

      I don't have a pet theory, nor favorite suspect for JtR, and I am not a psychologist. But one thing that comes to mind is

      "how do you know you suffer from vertigo if you never climbed a ladder?"

      My point is, if someone is turned on by something as twisted as slashing/cutting, it doesn't happen overnight.
      Horsnell was beaten up.
      Millwood was stabbed (picquerism?)
      Smith (can't remember if slashed or stabbed, but her ear was almost removed, and she suffered a repulsive assault by an object)
      Tabram was stabbed. (Hypothesis: One hand on her mouth, head smashed to the floor, while the other hand pierce her sternum with a stronger blade, he leaves the blade there, and use clasp knife for his fantasy).

      The mutilations are the turn on, the throat slashing was the best option so he could do it without any resistance.

      So, I think it's not impossible that Millwood was one step toward the discovery of his twisted fantasy.

      If anything, I'd be more inclined to include Millwood as a potential JtR victim than Smith, who was attacked by 3 men. Or like Tom Westcott wrote in his book, maybe her story wasn't the truth, because she expected to survive the attack.

      Anyway, It bugs me a little that there is a general dismissal of Millwood and a sudden interest in Smith.

      As for Baxter, calling her death unrelated, let's not forget that despite recommendation from a doctor, an autopsy wasn't ordered on Horsnell and an open verdict was ruled because they felt there was no chance of catching who did it. Was the Millwood case similar? 40 days later, that trail was cold.

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      • #18
        Good points there, Sir John.
        I think Millwood's assault could have been committed by the Ripper. You're not alone, as some other folks around here do too.
        To Join JTR Forums :
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        • #19
          Sir John: One of the things I have always looked for was, what did Jack do before he got good at cutting throats? I have an idea he was a strangler, but he could have been a lot of things. Annie Millwood or even Ada Wilson are possibilities.

          Or perhaps Polly Nichols said or did something Jack's sick mind didn't like and that was the start. I really don't think his first crime was a deadly efficient throat slashing.

          One thing I have learned fairly recently is that the, "five and five only" started with MacNaughten who seemed to have a suspect or two or three in mind. Perhaps those suspects were not available for other murders and that is how the list was narrowed to five and five only.

          Keeping one's mind open, looking for patterns and doing as much research as possible is the best way to solve this I think.
          The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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          • #20
            Thank you Howard and Anna.

            I just want to point out that I'm not pushing the case of Millwood being a victim of Jack, but like you said, "how did he get there? How did he get to Nichols? (meaning the M.O. and signature)

            You don't wake up one morning saying "I had a dream of women savagely cut and disemboweled and now I have the strangest boner".

            Maybe he was a criminal in a gang. Maybe one night got a little violent and he discovered that he liked it. Maybe it got weird and the gang dropped him, or even better, maybe it got too weird and they got rid of him.

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            • #21
              You don't wake up one morning saying "I had a dream of women savagely cut and disemboweled and now I have the strangest boner".
              -Sir John-

              Sez you...
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              • #22
                Originally posted by m_w_r View Post
                Hi Paul,

                I never went any further with this than is shown in my article in the WS1888 Journal (October 2008). Incidentally, in that article, I suggested that the spelling was Milward, with one l.

                However, Rob Clack and Philip Hutchinson went a little further in the second and paperback editions of their book TLOJTRTAN. They identified Annie in the 1881 records of the Whitechapel Union Infirmary (she was admitted shortly after the census of that year was taken).

                As for Richard Milward ... he was a devil to find - not so much in the censuses and so on as in military records and other sources: I thought I might be able to locate some interesting stuff there. But of course Annie herself never seems to have been much more specific about the nature of Richard's service than to say that he was a soldier, so one doesn't really know where to begin to look. More details - details we don't have - would have been very helpful here, and, as the world's least enthusiastic searcher of military records, I never got very far with this. With infinite patience, or with new information, or with a bit of luck, I suppose that Richard could be found. I don't plan to look for him myself, however.

                I continue to feel that the identification of Annie Milward is the correct one, for whatever good that does. But I don't suppose that the spelling of her name is really up for general review - I wouldn't be surprised if she remained a Millwood in 90%+ of references over many, many years to come. Why, even in the recent A-Z ... ahem ...

                Regards,

                Mark
                Interestingly there is an Anne/Annie Milward, aged 30, on the 1881 census for HMP Westminster. Her place of birth was given as Stratford, Essex, though, so she probably wasn't the woman who married in Chelsea and who would have been 34 in 1881. (She is on page 14 of the census, Bridget Kelly is on page 16.)

                The Chelsea woman's father was a solicitor (if I've read it correctly), so she would have had some fall from grace to end up in a doss house in White's Row.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                  Interestingly there is an Anne/Annie Milward, aged 30, on the 1881 census for HMP Westminster. Her place of birth was given as Stratford, Essex, though, so she probably wasn't the woman who married in Chelsea and who would have been 34 in 1881. (She is on page 14 of the census, Bridget Kelly is on page 16.)

                  The Chelsea woman's father was a solicitor (if I've read it correctly), so she would have had some fall from grace to end up in a doss house in White's Row.
                  Hi Gary,

                  I seem to remember discounting her on the basis that there were too many dissimilarities. I think the problem with Milward, Millward, Milwood and Millwood is that all seem like potential spellings for the surname, so individual spelling errors - or variations - can make her quite difficult to isolate.

                  Regards,

                  Mark
                  I bet your Ripper feels better now.

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                  • #24
                    Hi Mark,

                    I'm sure you're right. The Richard/soldier match is pretty strong, although Chelsea lady's age is a bit out.

                    Gary.

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                    • #25
                      When I was updating me book with Philip, I believed and still do that Mark Ripper found the right person. I managed to track this person in the Whitechapel Union Admission and Discharge book in 1881 with the exact same details as the person Mark Ripper found. What was interesting is that she was listed as having 'no home' and this was about three weeks after the 1881 census was taken, which would explain the difficulty of finding her in the 81 census. She just wasn't in it.

                      Anyway the correct spelling is MILWARD.

                      Rob

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Rob Clack View Post
                        When I was updating me book with Philip, I believed and still do that Mark Ripper found the right person. I managed to track this person in the Whitechapel Union Admission and Discharge book in 1881 with the exact same details as the person Mark Ripper found. What was interesting is that she was listed as having 'no home' and this was about three weeks after the 1881 census was taken, which would explain the difficulty of finding her in the 81 census. She just wasn't in it.

                        Anyway the correct spelling is MILWARD.

                        Rob
                        Hi Rob,

                        The WU records (1881) have her as 30, though, don't they (twice)?

                        The marriage cert shows her as 25 in 1872 and the birth cert has her born in 1844. So 3 different ages in 1881: 30, 34 and 37. Quite a range.

                        The 1881 WU records have two spellings for her name, Milward and Millward.

                        Gary

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                        • #27
                          Here are the two 1881 WU entries. The age in second one has been transcribed as 36, but if you compare it to the 6 on the entry below for Jessie Morrison, it is quite different. It looks much closer to other 0s elsewhere on the page.

                          image.jpg

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                          • #28
                            Sir John: If we consider Emma Smith as one of Jack's first, the idea of him being a gang member who escalated is very possible. Sexual sadism enters the picture when he tears up her insides via a blunt instrument through her vagina. If her attacker (though she said a gang) wasn't Jack, whoever did that to her was worse than Jack IMO. At least Jack killed them before he did more.

                            I have been reading quite a few Old Bailey cases. They are better than any fiction out there. Violence and gang activity was very close to the surface at all times it appears. We comment on inner city violence in my country now, such as the numerous gang shootings in Chicago. Violence has always been with us and continues into the present day. But what surprises me about the old cases is the personal nature of the violence; stabbing, beating, kicking. How far does one have to escalate from such personalized violent activities to being a murderer or serial killer?
                            The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                              Hi Rob,

                              The WU records (1881) have her as 30, though, don't they (twice)?

                              The marriage cert shows her as 25 in 1872 and the birth cert has her born in 1844. So 3 different ages in 1881: 30, 34 and 37. Quite a range.

                              The 1881 WU records have two spellings for her name, Milward and Millward.

                              Gary
                              Hi Gary,

                              The ages were not too much of a worry to me. She matches perfectly with the 1888 entries as Annie Millwood (widow of soldier Richard). So it's beyond doubt to me that they are the same person.
                              The two 1881 entries her age is 30.

                              Annie Millward STBGWH12314 L.jpg

                              Annie Millward STBGWH12315 L.jpg

                              Rob

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                              • #30
                                Rob: How were birthdays regarded in that time? We pretty much never her about birth dates in our research. For instance not even Barnett made casual mention of MJK's birthday, such as, we got drunk once on her birthday in ______ month.

                                My point is if one does not pay much attention to the day and year they were born, age might be a bit theoretical. One perhaps turns 23 sometime in the spring, but when exactly does that person think she turns 24? Pretty soon I think, exactly how old a person thinks he or she is, becomes inaccurate by a couple years or so.

                                (I know from having lived with Middle Eastern people, who have traditionally used a lunar calendar, and who do not keep track of birth dates, that age is very fluid. In the 1970s these things were guessed at in order to receive passports. I learned all this when I was thrilled about a close friend from Egypt sharing my birthday. But he really didn't. He had no idea when he was born and simply made up the date to get a passport.)
                                The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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