Could These Be Alice Mackenzie's Relatives ?

[Pat Marshall]

1851 census.

I found the Family of Colin and Penelope Mckenzie living in Peterborough in They were mostly born in Scotland but the last two were born 1842 in Abbots Langley Hertfordshire and the Baby Penelope born 1843 in Brentwood Essex...Dad worked as a Clerk on the Railways.
Although Penelope is not Alice Mc Kenzie(I did think she was at first)
I wonder if they were related in any way ?
They were in Shoreditch St Leonards in 1861 census with a visitor Mary Mckenzie aged 33 born Scotland.
From there on they appear to have lived in Camberwell Peckham after that. I have all the details off deaths, census etc...
Any ideas to see if they are relations?
I have just found a Colin Mackenzie who married a Penelope Wylie in Stornoway,Ross and Cromarty,Scotland in 1829
Pat...........

[Debra Arif]

Hi Pat
With the Peterborough connection and arrival in London there seems a possibility that they may be relations. I remember the information but don't remember the source of the comment that Alice was originally from Peterborough, was it in the newspapers?

I hoped Alice might be traced through the workhouse records where she says her husband was named John and she was arrested a few times for drunkenness, one time on Dorset St.,.. but nothing

[Gary Barnett]

This is from The Boston [Lincs] Guardian of 17/8/1889. I've no idea how accurate it is.

[Gary Barnett]

On the 1851 census, there is a PO messenger named Charles Pitts living in the Peterborough Cathedral Precincts with a 6-year-old daughter named Alice.

[Gary Barnett]

In 1861, Alice Pitts is working as a servant to a family named Miller in High Cross Street, Leicester. The head of the household, Edward Miller, is a master brazier employing 2 men and 2 boys. Alice is unmarried, aged 17 and her place of birth is Northamptonsh[ire],Peterborough.

[Gary Barnett]

No luck so far with a Pitts/McKenzie marriage, but perhaps Alice was a McKenzie in the same way that Kate was a Conway or Martha a Turner?

[Gary Barnett]

The family lived in the Precincts between 1841 and 1881, although Charles seemingly died between the 1871 and 1881 censuses.

This is presumably his death:

[Debra Arif]

wow Gary!
I'd seen the postman mention before in Jon Simons article in Ripperologist but never seen that much detail before. Excellent follow up too!
That has to be her, it tallies almost exactly.

[Howard Brown]

Gary

What a great find, that Boston Guardian piece !!!

[Debra Arif]

The workhouse Alice McKenzie claimed to be the widow of John, a carpenter.

[Gary Barnett]

Gary

What a great find, that Boston Guardian piece !!!

Thanks, How.

Boston (Lincolnshire) would have been a local(ish) paper for the Peterborough area. And they are obviously talking about a real family who had lived there just a few years prior to the article being written. So, their claims seem fairly convincing to me.

Finding the marriage would seal it, but perhaps there wasn't one.

[Gary Barnett]

wow Gary!
I'd seen the postman mention before in Jon Simons article in Ripperologist but never seen that much detail before. Excellent follow up too!
That has to be her, it tallies almost exactly.

Thanks, Debs.

I haven't read Jon's article. Perhaps this report was the basis for his claim.

[Debra Arif]

Thanks, Debs.

I haven't read Jon's article. Perhaps this report was the basis for his claim.

No, this is a brand new find as far as I'm aware. A lot of other newspapers reported that Alice's father was a postman in Liverpool IIRC.

[Gary Barnett]

It looks like Alice's mother, Martha, died in Dec q, 1885, which also ties in with the Guardian report.

[Gary Barnett]

No, this is a brand new find as far as I'm aware. A lot of other newspapers reported that Alice's father was a postman in Liverpool IIRC.

Thanks, Debs.