Could These Be Alice Mackenzie's Relatives ?

[Gary Barnett]

There was a Charles Pitts with mother Pitts born end of 1860, Peterborough. A Charles Pitts dies Peterborough 1862 aged 1.

Sounds promising.

[Gary Barnett]

I think that Joseph was the son of George Kinsey and Sarah Burton married Christmas Day 1834 at All Saints Leicestershire.
The family seem to have been Baptists.

Debs,

Where did you pick up the baptist connection?

Gary

[Robert Linford]

Yes, but it should really have a dash.


There don't seem to have been any Pitts-Pitts marriages in Peterborough, but there was one in Oundle 1856.

[Gary Barnett]

Yes, but it should really have a dash.


There don't seem to have been any Pitts-Pitts marriages in Peterborough, but there was one in Oundle 1856.

I've always liked the sound of Oundle.

[Gary Barnett]

From the Peterborough Advertiser 17th August, 1889:

image.jpeg

[Gary Barnett]

And this is from the Glasgow Evening Citizen of 20/8/1889:

image.jpeg

[Anna Morris]

The newspaper article below raises some questions.

It sounds from that that five years before her death, Alice left the area to marry a GROCER named MacKenzie. That has come up before. Yet we seem to have Alice Kinsey who married a chair maker at age 20. Was there a MacKenzie? Is there a pattern to the way the information seems to be garbled?

[Debra Arif]

Debs,

Where did you pick up the baptist connection?

Gary

You're asking me something there, Gary. I've slept since then.
I'll check and get back to you in a little while.

[Gary Barnett]

You're asking me something there, Gary. I've slept since then.
I'll check and get back to you in a little while.

Thanks!

[Debra Arif]

Okay, it's a little complicated.

I looked for the baptisms of the children John B Kinsey or Joseph Kinsey living with George and Sarah in the 1851 census.

I found Jon B's baptismal record, here's the transcript from the full image version:

John Burton Kinsay
son of George Kinsay and Sarah Kinsay daur of John Burton born in Leicester in the Parish of All Saints 5/11/1834
present Jane Harding and Ann Burton
Registered at General Baptist, Friar Lane Leicester Sam Wigg

I couldn't see younger brother Joseph in the records though.

I checked for a Burton/Kinsay marriage and found the one at All Saints on Christmas Day that I mentioned earlier between George Kinsey and Sarah Burton.

I then found a GRO birth ref for Joseph Kinsey mother's maiden name Burton at the right time to tie it all together..
KINSEY, JOSEPH BURTON Order
GRO Reference: 1841 J Quarter in OF LEICESTER UNION Volume 15 Page 123

[Sam Flynn]

I've always liked the sound of Oundle.

Claim to fame: one of the few places in the Universe that rhymes with "roundel". Fascinating fact, that.

[Debra Arif]

John B Baptism



George Kinsey and Sarah Burton marriage 1834

There's also a marriage certificate for John Burton Kinsey that I mentioned earlier, showing his father George still alive in 1856.

[Gary Barnett]

Okay, it's a little complicated.

I looked for the baptisms of the children John B Kinsey or Joseph Kinsey living with George and Sarah in the 1851 census.

I found Jon B's baptismal record, here's the transcript from the full image version:

John Burton Kinsay
son of George Kinsay and Sarah Kinsay daur of John Burton born in Leicester in the Parish of All Saints 5/11/1834
present Jane Harding and Ann Burton
Registered at General Baptist, Friar Lane Leicester Sam Wigg

I couldn't see younger brother Joseph in the records though.

I checked for a Burton/Kinsay marriage and found the one at All Saints on Christmas Day that I mentioned earlier between George Kinsey and Sarah Burton.

I then found a GRO birth ref for Joseph Kinsey mother's maiden name Burton at the right time to tie it all together..
KINSEY, JOSEPH BURTON Order
GRO Reference: 1841 J Quarter in OF LEICESTER UNION Volume 15 Page 123

Thank you, I think I've got it.

[Gary Barnett]

Thanks for the images, too!

[Gary Barnett]

The newspaper article below raises some questions.

It sounds from that that five years before her death, Alice left the area to marry a GROCER named MacKenzie. That has come up before. Yet we seem to have Alice Kinsey who married a chair maker at age 20. Was there a MacKenzie? Is there a pattern to the way the information seems to be garbled?

Hi Anna,

There are some discrepancies, but we are talking about press reporting based on local anecdote/gossip, so that's not really surprising.

Alice Pitts, the postman's daughter, disappears from Peterborough after 1851 and in 1861 a Peterborough-born Alice Pitts of a similar age turns up in Leicester. Two years later an Alice Pitts whose father was a postman marries a chair maker named Joseph Kinsey in Leicester. Its not as though there were numerous Alice Pitts born in Peterborough in the mid-1840s - I've only found one. So I think it's highly likely that these are the same person and the press reports got it wrong.

In 1875, Alice McKenzie is describing herself as the widow of Joseph, a carpenter. Although the parochial authorities have her name down as McKenzie, the Wandsworth prison register spells the name McKensey. Personally, I think a morphing of the name Kinsey into McKensey and ultimately McKenzie/Mackenzie is more likely than that there was a grocer named Mackenzie somewhere in the mix.

It's early days, though. Who knows what may come out of the woodwork in the future.

Gary