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Could These Be Alice Mackenzie's Relatives ?

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  • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    No, I didn’t, Debs.

    I should chase them up.
    I’ve sent a follow-up email and if I don’t get a response shortly, I’ll give them a call.

    Comment


    • Davys Photo Album

      How intriguing is this?

      In the 1970s someone apparently picked up a Victorian photo album from a ‘junk stall’ in Hailsham, Sussex. It contained photos of a family named Davys, one of which was of the ‘family servants in Leicester, all of whom are named...’

      The head of this family was apparently Edmund Davys, the son of George Davys, the bishop of Peterborough between 1839 and 1864. As we know, the Pitts family lived in the Peterborough Minster precincts between ca 1840 and 1885 and in the early years Alice’s father, Charles, was described as a servant - on one occasion specifically as a footman. I imagine you’d have to be a pretty high-ranking cleric to have employed a footman. Would anyone less than a Bishop have done so?

      In 1861, Edmund Davys was the vicar of St. John the Baptist, Peterborough. By 1871, he had become the vicar of Trinity Church in Regent Street, Leicester.

      Having been born and raised in the Peterborough minster precincts, Alice Pitts moved to Leicester around 1860/1 and seems to have spent much of the 1860s there.

      The family album was offered for sale online some years ago and was snapped up by ‘a collector’. A descendant of Edmund Davys has been trying to discover who the purchaser was, but the trail has gone cold.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
        How intriguing is this?

        In the 1970s someone apparently picked up a Victorian photo album from a ‘junk stall’ in Hailsham, Sussex. It contained photos of a family named Davys, one of which was of the ‘family servants in Leicester, all of whom are named...’

        The head of this family was apparently Edmund Davys, the son of George Davys, the bishop of Peterborough between 1839 and 1864. As we know, the Pitts family lived in the Peterborough Minster precincts between ca 1840 and 1885 and in the early years Alice’s father, Charles, was described as a servant - on one occasion specifically as a footman. I imagine you’d have to be a pretty high-ranking cleric to have employed a footman. Would anyone less than a Bishop have done so?

        In 1861, Edmund Davys was the vicar of St. John the Baptist, Peterborough. By 1871, he had become the vicar of Trinity Church in Regent Street, Leicester.

        Having been born and raised in the Peterborough minster precincts, Alice Pitts moved to Leicester around 1860/1 and seems to have spent much of the 1860s there.

        The family album was offered for sale online some years ago and was snapped up by ‘a collector’. A descendant of Edmund Davys has been trying to discover who the purchaser was, but the trail has gone cold.
        I am attempting to make contact with the descendant of Edmund Davys who is on the hunt for the album. The chances are that Alice Pitts isn’t one of the named Leicester servants, but the fact that the Davys family photographed their servants is quite encouraging. There may well be a photo of the Pitts family out there somewhere.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
          I’ve sent a follow-up email and if I don’t get a response shortly, I’ll give them a call.
          Nothing much came of this beyond a general ‘invitation’ to visit the Cathedral Archives. Something for 2020, I think.

          Comment


          • These are the servants in question.

            ECB52311-9492-4B2A-8FE8-7D30A9F3AA67.jpeg


            There isn’t one there who obviously resembles the PM photo of Alice McKenzie, but I would still like to know their names.

            Comment


            • Poor Alice.

              EF0B8CDA-84A2-4E50-AEF9-4A4BA2A4FF6A.jpeg

              This was her at 44 after a hard life.

              Could the servant second from the left have been Alice in her teens/early 20s?

              Wishful thinking, I know.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                Poor Alice.

                [ATTACH]20654[/ATTACH]

                This was her at 44 after a hard life.

                Could the servant second from the left have been Alice in her teens/early 20s?

                Wishful thinking, I know.
                The hairs on the back of my neck stood up when I read the last line and looked at the photograph..

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                  The hairs on the back of my neck stood up when I read the last line and looked at the photograph..
                  It’s a bit of a long shot. I don’t know the precise date of the photo, but Edmund Davys was in Leicester in the 1860s, and the chances are that his father had been Charles Pitts’ ultimate boss in Peterborough.

                  What do you think of the resemblance? Could the young servant have developed into the older woman we know as Alice ‘MacKenzie’?

                  BD7B249F-98F5-47D4-A42E-33C4F2214117.jpeg

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                    It’s a bit of a long shot. I don’t know the precise date of the photo, but Edmund Davys was in Leicester in the 1860s, and the chances are that his father had been Charles Pitts’ ultimate boss in Peterborough.

                    What do you think of the resemblance? Could the young servant have developed into the older woman we know to have been Alice ‘MacKenzie’?

                    [ATTACH]20656[/ATTACH]
                    Long shot or not, I see definite similarities. The square hairline with hair square on the temples is exactly the same on the servant and Alice. It looks to me as though the first and second girl servants are sisters? Both have the same hairline, which is different to the other ladies in the picture. There's similarity in all the features of the face between the servant and Alice.

                    Comment


                    • They all seem to have that painful-looking bald parting. The three young ones look sulky, the two older ones look hard-faced.


                      It this the matriarch with two of her grandchildren, with one older daughter and three younger ones?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                        They all seem to have that painful-looking bald parting. The three young ones look sulky, the two older ones look hard-faced.


                        It this the matriarch with two of her grandchildren, with one older daughter and three younger ones?
                        It’s supposed to be the Davys’ servants. At first I thought it was a family group because of the sprogs, but it’s labelled “Davys servants”.

                        The dates probably wouldn’t work for Alice, she was married by 1863 and the evidence of Edmund Davys being in Leicester is later. I’d still like to know their names.

                        Comment


                        • This is where the info came from:

                          https://www.rootschat.com/forum/inde...rfq1jdhlnetjv1

                          Comment


                          • Very interesting work, Gary....I have my fingers crossed that it leads to what we hope it might be.
                            To Join JTR Forums :
                            Contact Howard@jtrforums.com

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                            • Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
                              Very interesting work, Gary....I have my fingers crossed that it leads to what we hope it might be.
                              I think it’s a real long shot, How.

                              What is encouraging, though, is someone in Edmund Davy’s position making a photographic record of his servants.

                              Comment


                              • Look at the real Alice' hairline, especially at the temples. That is an odd pattern. In the family picture, the girl to the left of the Maybe-Alice has a similar pattern, for what it's worth.

                                In the family portrait, the Maybe-Alice seems to have a fairly fine and adorned dress. I can't see enough details to get much idea about the adornment. If she did handwork, she could have adorned the dress herself. If it was made that way, it looks more expensive than what a servant would have worn, even as a Sunday dress.
                                The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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