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Could These Be Alice Mackenzie's Relatives ?

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  • Originally posted by Pat Marshall View Post
    Debra
    Ada Tradagan was sentenced to 10 years in 1877 here is a picture of her

    Pat....
    1877, 9 July
    As Ada Wilson, 9 months, Middlesex Sessions, Larceny from the person &receiving after a P.C.F (London Evening Standard 03 July 1877. Alleged robbery in an omnibus. Ada Wilson alias Ada Wilton living at the East End of London. Convicted Middlesex session)


    Convicted as Ada Tradigan in 1879 for 10 years

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    • Debs:

      I put the picture of her back on the thread
      8th post
      https://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=26340&page=3

      XXXX
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      • Originally posted by Pat Marshall View Post
        Debra
        Ada Tradagan was sentenced to 10 years in 1877 here is a picture of her

        Pat....
        Fantastic picture, Pat! I so love to see pictures of the people.

        For everyone who is considering aliases used by people in the court system, see if there are any patterns in the way they choose aliases. Like I just notice Ada Wilson may have been Ada Wilton.

        Is there any percentage one way or another that they chose aliases from family names, associates or lovers, completely made up, geographical, ethnic*? Is there a pattern of names differing by a letter or two such as Wilton and Wilson or could those be errors made by the person writing the information.

        *Under ethnic I am considering possibly Welsh MJK claiming Irish or even English Bridget Kelly claiming Irish, and maybe Alice Kinsey claiming Scottish and the name MacKenzie.

        I hope I have made this clear....
        The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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        • Thanks How xxx
          Nice to see her back where she belongs in and amongst the research I did on her!

          ....for those who missed it first time around

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          • Anna, I can see someone using a similar surname to their own for one particular local area. But if more areas are added it will quickly confuse them.

            However I think they probably did use names of people they knew.

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            • Anna I always had an idea that Mary Jane called herself Kelly because Joe Barnett called himself Kelly and was Irish...?
              Pat...

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              • Originally posted by Pat Marshall View Post
                Anna I always had an idea that Mary Jane called herself Kelly because Joe Barnett called himself Kelly and was Irish...?
                Pat...
                Did Barnett really call himself Kelly? And so far as I know MJK was known as MJK when she lived on Pennington Street. At least no other name was offered by her associates there.

                I have thought at times that her family was contacted and they were protected from the notoriety and press scrutiny but there isn't much to back up this idea either.
                The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                • Yes of course your right Anna nobody called her by another name .
                  I think one or two of the witness statements called him Joseph Kelly. John McCarthy was one and a woman who said she saw Mary in the pub with Danny Kelly.
                  I just found a Mary Smith tried in Glamorgan and sent to prison in London. 80-84 I believe. It said her alias was Davis and that was also her parents name William and Mary Davis from Neath. The police wrote her parents were a thoroughly bad lot...I got a bit excited till I saw she was only 5 foot 2 inches tall ! Shame there was a photo too...

                  Pat........

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                  • Peterborough Advertiser - Saturday 20 January 1889

                    Found this article regarding her incident in 1889 when she said she came from Scotland
                    Pat...
                    Attached Files

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                    • This date was mentioned earlier in the thread but here is an image of the baptismal record of Alice

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                      • Nice one, Debs ! Thank you.

                        Pats....that isn't the same Mackenzie is it ? Wasn't our Alice living in the East End in January of 1889 ?
                        Thanks for the article...
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                        • Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
                          Nice one, Debs ! Thank you.

                          Pats....that isn't the same Mackenzie is it ? Wasn't our Alice living in the East End in January of 1889 ?
                          Thanks for the article...
                          Thanks, How.


                          That could be the same woman. Robert mentioned the 1889 begging offence in Peterborough earlier because the original article Gary found said that Alice had been back in her home city a few weeks before she was murdered.

                          Jerry's post #98 seems to clarify that.

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                          • Thank you Debs !
                            Good find Pats......
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                            • Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                              Yes, that sounds like a possibility.

                              Just going back to convictions, I don't know if you've seen this one or not:

                              Alice MacKenzie age 27, height 5ft 4.5in. hair auburn, eyes hazel, complexion pale, scar under left eye, laundress, convicted Southwark, 31st Aug 1873, charge D&R, sentence 7 days, can read and write, weight in 9st 10lbs, out 9st 6lbs

                              One thing I noticed was the difference in weight from the record you mentioned earlier, and no mention of the missing thumb, What do you think?
                              Hi Debs,

                              Sorry, I missed this. The weight discrepancy is a problem, the omission of the thumb injury perhaps less so. Otherwise, I would have said it must be her.

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                              • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                                Hi Debs,

                                Sorry, I missed this. The weight discrepancy is a problem, the omission of the thumb injury perhaps less so. Otherwise, I would have said it must be her.
                                Thanks, Gary. Yes, I thought the weight difference was too big a difference to not be questionable.Unless Alice was maybe pregnant at the time?

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