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Charles Lechmere and the Pinchin Street torso

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  • Stuart Cumberlands Illustrated Mirror Monday 16 September 1889.jpg

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    • Solely for the purposes of countering the claim that Lechmere is the best of the Ripper suspects for the torso murders, here's a few points that I believe places Le Grand heads above him. Lechmere enthusiasts such as Ed, Christer, and Stephen Thomas, might not like this:

      1) Unquestionable knowledge of the area.

      2) Was in charge of a foot patrol that actually covered the Pinchin Street area while with the WVC.

      3) Kept different residences, so privacy was not an issue.

      4) Had carriage access.

      5) Had the means to afford things like venetian blinds.

      6) Given that one of his primary means of livelihood was prostitution, he would have been connected with abortionists. Not sure if this plays a part, but having criminal accomplices with medical tools and perhaps knowledge is something Lechmere didn't have.

      7) One of the theories about the torso murders is that they were paid murders from men being blackmailed. Le Grand, alone of all the Ripper suspects, actually placed ads in the newspapers advertising his services to men being blackmailed. This theory explains the necessity to obscure the victims' identity, or else they'd be traced back to the killer's client.

      8) The one victim who was identified, Elizabeth Jackson, had a pimp/boyfriend she called 'Charlie'.

      9) Pipeman, who fits Le Grand's description, ran to near the railway arches and may have been called 'Lipski' by his accomplice. The Pinchin Street torso murder, which would have been committed not by Le Grand but his business partner, was found in the arches with the word 'Lipski' written near it.

      These are by no means all the points I had in mind, but I feel it's enough to place him far above Lechmere, who is currently on trial here.

      Yours truly,

      Tom Wescott

      Comment


      • Hi Rob, thanks for the wonderful drawing. I was just reading something about Hume Nesbet. Not sure where. That one's frameable.

        Yours truly,

        Tom Wescott

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
          8) The one victim who was identified, Elizabeth Jackson, had a pimp/boyfriend she called 'Charlie'.

          9) Pipeman, who fits Le Grand's description, ran to near the railway arches and may have been called 'Lipski' by his accomplice. The Pinchin Street torso murder, which would have been committed not by Le Grand but his business partner, was found in the arches with the word 'Lipski' written near it.
          OK, those last 2 I didn't know about. Point # 9 is fascinating.
          Best regards,
          Maria

          Comment


          • Rob, can you be seriously considering Barnett for the post-C5?

            As a matter of fact, Barnett is the only one from the victim's BFs that I'm considering as capable of having done it, but hardly any evidence exists.
            Best regards,
            Maria

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
              Hi Rob, thanks for the wonderful drawing. I was just reading something about Hume Nesbet. Not sure where. That one's frameable.

              Yours truly,

              Tom Wescott
              He also wrote the short story "The Demon Spell" about Jack the Ripper.

              Rob

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Maria Birbili View Post
                Rob, can you be seriously considering Barnett for the post-C5?

                As a matter of fact, Barnett is the only one from the victim's BFs that I'm considering as capable of having done it, but hardly any evidence exists.
                I'm not considering Barnett for anything. Just pointing out that he had as good a knowledge East London as Lechmere and he lived closer to all the Whitechapel Murder sites. Better suspect than Lechmere.

                Rob

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                • Originally posted by Maria Birbili View Post
                  OK, those last 2 I didn't know about. Point # 9 is fascinating.
                  Hi Maria. I personally don't think the 'Charlie' in Jackson's life was Le Grand. And it only occurred to me after I posted it that Lechmere's name is Charles also!

                  Yours truly,

                  Tom Wescott

                  Comment


                  • Rob, Tom...
                    Here's the link to The Demon Spell

                    http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0602471.txt
                    To Join JTR Forums :
                    Contact [email protected]

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                    • Thanks Rob and Howard. I must have been reading about Hume somewhere on this site. Or else in an old issue of Ripperologist.

                      Yours truly,

                      Tom Wescott

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Rob Clack View Post
                        I'm not considering Barnett for anything. Just pointing out that he had as good a knowledge East London as Lechmere and he lived closer to all the Whitechapel Murder sites. Better suspect than Lechmere.
                        Ah, OK. Got it.
                        Is it OK if I email you (and Debs) my Paris torso notes in about 3 weeks, before leaving for Paris or from Paris? Before that, too much stuff going on here in Berlin. Only been back in Europe for about a month and it's been a bit of a nightmare. :-)

                        Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
                        I personally don't think the 'Charlie' in Jackson's life was Le Grand. And it only occurred to me after I posted it that Lechmere's name is Charles also!
                        Yeah, me too I think that "Charlie" is flimsy, but the "Lipski" inscription is fascinating! Earlier today it occurred to me that Fish and you are selling suspects with the same first name, and it cracked me up.
                        BTW sent you the source again.
                        Now gotta eat.
                        Best regards,
                        Maria

                        Comment


                        • Hi Maria. I plan to sell books, not suspects.

                          Yours truly,

                          Tom Wescott

                          Comment


                          • "Sell" was a turn of the phrase, Tom.

                            My book manuscript BTW is on its way back from the jr editor and requires additional style sheet changes and additional small corrections. "It's a process."
                            Best regards,
                            Maria

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
                              Hi Monty. I disagree, depending on the theorist, his approach, and his evidence. To me the exercise of comparing Ripper suspects against the torso murders would be academic and fun. Now if I started a thread and said I have proof that Le Grand was the torso murder and then failed to present anything resembling proof, I'm fair game. My point was simply that if I laid out an argument for Le Grand as torso killer and you compared it against Ed's argument for Cross, you would have to concede that Le Grand was the far likelier of the two, in spite of the fact that he was in prison for some of the torso murders. However, I am at a handicap as I don't know where Le Grand's mother lived, and apparently that's an important piece of the puzzle.

                              Yours truly,

                              Tom Wescott
                              Hi Tom,

                              That's not the point I am discussing here.

                              A theory is a theory and must be presented with sound evidence and withstand robust questioning. However you describe that as 'flak'.

                              It isn't.

                              As for Mrs Cross and Mrs Le Grand, this as evidence of a killer could fit thousands. PC Pennett lived yards away from Swallow Gardens, as did PC Pearce, PC Neill actually lived on Chamber Street at some stage, as you know Sadler lived in Bucks Row. Speaking of Bucks Row, Charles Reeves lived there too....so?

                              Monty

                              Comment


                              • Tom,I placed LG at Splidts Street for you with chewed up venetian blinds, wayback somewhere in the thread. lol

                                Not to divert the thread but one of the people with the most address coincidences I've seen so far was the activist and socialist Isaac Vanderhaut, he'd lived at White's Row, Hanbury Street, Miller's Court and a few others too. He was also said to have represented the Vigilance Committee at the funeral of MJK, as I found a few years back in the paper.

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