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Charles Lechmere and the Pinchin Street torso

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  • don't think so

    Hello Jon. thanks.

    I will reply briefly since I recognise we are off topic. Then I'll behave. (heh-heh)

    "He may have discovered where Isenschmid was and got someone to come forward to tell the authorities."

    And this person ignored all the papers and scuttlebutt for the last 9 days? And whence, suddenly, Jacob's revitalised memory and lucid thinking?

    I think I prefer the Swiss brother suddenly turning up and playing whist at 5.30.

    Cheers.
    LC

    Comment


    • Lynn
      No matter how complete the JI file is, we don't have a police reason for their dropping him anyway.

      Comment


      • news

        Hello Jon. Thanks.

        How am I supposed to be good when you ask a direct question? (heh-heh)

        "Isenchmid wasn`t big news."

        Indeed? Read "The Star."

        "Revitalised memory amd lucid thinking ... you mean, talking to his brother?"

        I mean being completely aware of himself and surroundings. And then giving an alibi to his "brother."

        "Whatever you think is best for your theory."

        Only truth will do. Thank you.

        Cheers.
        LC

        Comment


        • Ah!

          Hello Edward. Thanks.

          "No matter how complete the JI file is, we don't have a police reason for their dropping him anyway."

          Now you're talking!

          Now, I really WILL behave. Back to your carman. Sorry.

          Cheers.
          LC

          Comment


          • truth

            Hello Jon. Thanks.

            Actually, there is only ONE truth. And in logic:

            Truth = df. "A correspondence between a proposition and whatever is the case."

            Now, let's stop and let Christer get back to work.

            Cheers.
            LC

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Lynn Cates View Post
              Now, let's stop and let Christer get back to work.

              Cheers.
              LC
              Alright, then!

              Since nobody took the bait on the chemise issue, I may as well come clear on it myself.

              This is how it is described by two people, beginning with inspector Pinhorn:

              "...it had been cut open from top to bottom. The armholes were cut right up to the neck."

              ...and by doctor Clarke:

              "It had been torn down the front, and had been cut out from the front of the armholes on each side."

              What does this tell us? I think it gives us some insight into what had happened. If the woman was lying dead flat on her back, clad in the chemise only, it would be awkward to pull it off her body. So what do you do to gain full access to the body? Exactly, you cut it from bottom to top. But it will still be hanging on around the arms, so you need to cut them up to, all the way up to the neck - exactly the way it was done here.
              So that, would in all probability be why the chemise was in the state it was. And it was said that the cutting was seemingly done by way of knife.

              To me, it sounds rather meticulous. No throwing the chemise up, Ripper-style, to gain access to the body, no cutting through it, but instead the almost surgical approach (if I may use the expression without implying in the least that he was a doctor!) of making three symmetrically positioned cuts, and then letting the chemise slide down to the bed, the slab, the floor - or wherever it was she was lying.

              But did he do this for practical purposes or for sexual gratification? And was she dead or alive when it was done? I can´t answer those questions.

              All the best,
              Christer
              "In these matters it is the little things that tell the tales" - Coroner Wynne Baxter during the Nichols inquest.

              Comment


              • Hi Christer,

                But wouldn't a cat meat's man have scissor like utensils on hand? If Lech had these available, why use a knife? Seems to rather work against the cat's meat equiptment theory.

                Yours truly,

                Tom Wescott

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
                  Hi Christer,

                  But wouldn't a cat meat's man have scissor like utensils on hand? If Lech had these available, why use a knife? Seems to rather work against the cat's meat equiptment theory.

                  Yours truly,

                  Tom Wescott
                  Well, my own take is that he probably would not try a pair of scissors on the abdomen, for example ... but even if this conjecture on my behalf should prove wrong, it still remains that doctor Percy opted for a knife having made the cuts to the chemise.

                  And to be perfectly honest, I´d wager a guess that the horse cadavres were not cut in pieces by means of scissors either.

                  All the best, Tom!

                  Christer
                  "In these matters it is the little things that tell the tales" - Coroner Wynne Baxter during the Nichols inquest.

                  Comment


                  • I will second that Christer.
                    I don't think scissors featured in the preparation of cat's meat.
                    Scissors are used in ching chang cholla of course. Perhaps Tom is getting the two practices mixed up?

                    Comment


                    • I have no idea what ching chang cholla means. Here in the states that's how you imitate a Chinaman. Is that what you're doing, Ed?

                      Yours truly,

                      Tom Wescott

                      Comment


                      • Chinese would be more intelligible. I'm just saying.
                        Best regards,
                        Maria

                        Comment


                        • I didn't know that name for it, but I will wager that it is that game 'scissors, paper, rock'

                          Comment




                          • Rob’s map (post 150) is interesting, but it’s incomplete and needs some additional data to provide a more accurate picture of Lechmere’s connection to the Pinchin Street area:


                            There should be 2 dots in Pinchin Street itself to show that in 1861, aged 12, CAL was living at no.13 - in Thomas Cross’s household - and that his mother lived at no. 23 with Joe Forsdyke between 1876 and 1882.

                            There should be 3 dots in Mary Ann Street to show that the ‘Cross family’ were living at no. 11 in 1869, when Thomas Cross and CAL’s sister Emily Lechmere died, and that Maria and CAL remained there until at least 1871; that CAL lived at no.12 in the early years of his marriage; and that Maria and Joe Forsdyke lived at no. 1 from 1883 to 1888.

                            A dot in the curve of the railway viaduct just to the east of where the torso was found would, I believe, show the house in Splidts Street where Maria and Joe Forsdyke lived when they were first married. Joe was living at another address in Splidts Street just prior to the marriage.

                            A couple of dots in the Highway would identify Maria’s catsmeat businesses there, and another under the LBR viaduct in Backchurch Lane would show where the catsmeat sheds were, although, of course, we haven’t yet connected the family to them. A dot in James street, just off the map to the east, would show where CAL lived with his growing family in a six-roomed house between the mid 70s and 1888, and extending the map a long way to the north east should show us Doveton Street where CAL and his family lived in probably more cramped conditions from ca June, 1888. (The coincidence of his starting to use a new route to work that for the first time took him through Spitalfields and Whitechapel just a few weeks before the WM series began is intriguing.)

                            It might also be interesting to highlight Berner Street and the four main streets that comprised Tiger Bay while CAL was growing up nearby - Frederick St. (their ‘local’) and Brunswick, Henry and Everard Streets.



                            The map below shows the small area where Maria Lechmere lived for thirty years with her two bigamously married husbands and, in 1871, a young carman boarder named George Blencowe who would later end his life in an asylum, as, of course, would Maria’s grandson (CAL’s son) William. This was where CAL developed from a boy into a man.


                            Map Key

                            Green dot: Pinchin Street torso

                            Red splodges : Lechmere/Cross/Forsdyke homes 1861-1889 (the locations of the dots within the streets is not meant to be precise)

                            Blue splodge: Backchurch Lane catsmeat sheds

                            Yellow line: The former site of the notorious Frederick Street, aka Tiger Bay




                            Attached Files

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