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Not Lose Sight of the man

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  • Not Lose Sight of the man

    Anyone seen this before? This occurred right after the discovery of the Pinchin Torso. I was wondering a couple of things. First, was there a Gravel Lane near the river or is this referring to the one near Mitre Square? Second, anyone have an idea of who the man they didn't want to lose sight of, was?

    The Echo September 16, 1889


  • #2
    Awesome find! Interesting to see the police believed two men dumped the pinchin torso & the whitehall torso! There needs to be a book full of all the press reports! And the echo shows up again!

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    • #3
      Hi Jerry,

      I can answer the first question. Old and New Gravel Lane ran down from the Highway to the river at Wapping/Shadwell.

      Gary.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
        Hi Jerry,

        I can answer the first question. Old and New Gravel Lane ran down from the Highway to the river at Wapping/Shadwell.

        Gary.
        Thank you, Gary!

        That must be the one they were searching, then. I wonder who tipped them off? I could be wrong but it sounds like some of this may relate to the "strange story" John Arnold gave to the police a few days before? Was he the man they would not lose sight of? Or someone he mentioned, like John Cleary?

        I believe the "Guzzling Jim" story surfaced about this time, too.

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        • #5
          Excellent work, Jerry !!!

          Jerry's find is a classic example of once previously undigitized or, possibly overlooked, articles which continue to surface.
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          • #6
            Hi Jerry,

            Yes, a very interesting find.

            Best wishes,

            Sean.

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            • #7
              Howard and Sean,

              Thanks. I always search to make sure something hasn't been posted or I don't recall hearing about it. Sometimes I wonder if a lot of these clips are hiding somewhere in the archives of Howard Brown! But as Howard has mentioned, sometimes they get overlooked or, are fresh archives. All the more reason to keep digging in the papers. Never know when the "big one" is going to surface that moves us another inch forward.

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              • #8
                Fabulous find, Jerry. I've never seen it before or read anything similar.
                The Echo seems to be a treasure trove for these kind of previously unseen snippets.

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                • #9
                  Hi at all!

                  September 16, 1889:

                  "...three small unoccupied tenements near Gravel Lane were visited... Inspector Henry Moore and Inspector E. Reid..."

                  It reminds me of:

                  November 6 , 1889:

                  "Police Inspector Moore... In two squares the Inspector pointed out three houses where he had said he had gone to find him"

                  http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....73&page=8Sagar 1905:

                  "The sounds were followed to King's Block in the model dwellings in Stoney Lane, but the search got no further."

                  Gravel Lane led to Stoney Lane, there were some blocks, North Block, Princesīs Block, Kings Block and South Block.

                  Karsten.

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                  • #10
                    Wall writing, Neil Bell, Rob Clack:

                    "There are a couple of mentions to writing being found on 'King's Block', part of the Artizans' Dwellings between Harrow Alley and Stoney Lane. Moreover, they are from newspaper reports written in 1905 on the retirement of Detective Inspector Robert Sagar. The reports are contradictory and should only be read as possibilities."

                    http://casebook.org/dissertations/rip-wallwriting.html

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                    • #11
                      Karsten:

                      There was wall writing in or around Artizan's Dwellings....the article Rob and Neil had published in Ripperologist Magazine contains a photo of the graffiti...
                      To Join JTR Forums :
                      Contact Howard@jtrforums.com

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
                        Thank you, Gary!

                        That must be the one they were searching, then. I wonder who tipped them off? I could be wrong but it sounds like some of this may relate to the "strange story" John Arnold gave to the police a few days before? Was he the man they would not lose sight of? Or someone he mentioned, like John Cleary?

                        I believe the "Guzzling Jim" story surfaced about this time, too.
                        I wonder if it has anything to do with the man, apparently a Jew tailor, seen on the corner by the dumping site by the guy who got knocked up at 5am by the constable on patrol?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                          I wonder if it has anything to do with the man, apparently a Jew tailor, seen on the corner by the dumping site by the guy who got knocked up at 5am by the constable on patrol?
                          Now that could be, Debs. Good thought. I was just talking about this, again, on casebook. Are you referring to Jeremiah Hurley's sighting of the Tailor in Pinchin Street when he left for work?

                          Also, unless I'm reading this wrong, does this not imply they think the Ripper had a hand in this with accomplices?

                          The detectives are not relying on the theory that the Pinchin-street crime was the work of the Whitechapel monster alone. They place more reliance on the assumption that two men placed the burden under the arch, and that the criminals responsible for depositing the woman's trunk last year at the new police offices on the Thames embankment have participated in the latest East-end mystery.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jerry Dunlop View Post
                            Now that could be, Debs. Good thought. I was just talking about this, again, on casebook. Are you referring to Jeremiah Hurley's sighting of the Tailor in Pinchin Street when he left for work?

                            Also, unless I'm reading this wrong, does this not imply they think the Ripper had a hand in this with accomplices?

                            The detectives are not relying on the theory that the Pinchin-street crime was the work of the Whitechapel monster alone. They place more reliance on the assumption that two men placed the burden under the arch, and that the criminals responsible for depositing the woman's trunk last year at the new police offices on the Thames embankment have participated in the latest East-end mystery.
                            Yes, I couldn't remember Hurley's name (if I ever knew it) but I remembered mentioning the 'Jew tailor' seen on the street corner at 5am near Pinchin St in the podcast.

                            It's an odd one to understand, Jerry. When they mention that they are not considering the Whitechapel murderer alone was responsible, it could mean two things. I took it to mean it wasn't the only theory they were considering, but when you read on, the mention of two men being involved seems to suggest that the first line could refer to him not working alone. So...I don't know.

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                            • #15
                              This isn't exactly relevant but years ago Rob Clack found an article about the Pinchin St murder in an American newspaper and printed alongside it was a diagram of a fenced-off bit of ground and it was labelled with forensic type clues. It pointed out things like fibres on the top of the fence and bits of paper screwed up and discarded-things like that. There was absolutely no explanation of the digram in the paper except that it was somehow related to Pinchin St and had been found or handed in or something if I am remembering it properly. If it was handed in, maybe it was part of the evidence of this 'strange story?'

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