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  • Tracy Ianson
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
    Hi Tracy


    There is a London Gazette announcement for 13 Sept 1918 stating that Lionel Shorts, formerly called Louis Schwatz (sic) is henceforth to be known as Lionel Shorts.


    In the 1939 register, Lionel is at 65 Earlham Grove West Ham. His surname has been mistranscribed as "Shark." With him are Francis (sic) and Marie. Lionel is born 4th March 89, Francis 28 Oct 89, and Marie 3 May 17. Marie's two future husbands are indicated.


    Judah Shorts is at 72 Churston Ave West Ham. Judah is born 12 Feb 98, Frances same birth date (!) and Eric 22 Feb 24.

    As always a great find Robert. Thanks for this, I hadn't yet found these.

    It does look like Lionel's wife's (Fanny) maiden name was Schnittlinger or Schmittlinger.

    I have Fanny's approx birth as J/A/S 1888

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  • Tracy Ianson
    replied
    Hi Anna

    Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
    FANTASTIC! Schwartz to Shorts. Makes sense but I would never have thought of it. What was Israel's profession? Actual country of origin? Poland or Austria/Hungary?
    Sorry about the lengthy response time, you probably have the answers now but just in case you haven't. Israels profession was a tailor, his country of origin was Poland. (as was Eva's)

    Leave a comment:


  • Tracy Ianson
    replied
    Hi all - sorry for the delayed response!

    [QUOTE]
    Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
    Tracy:

    Hats off to you if this is the Israel Schwartz !

    One question since I haven't been up to speed on trying to pin down Schwartz as you and others have....may I ask how do we know that the gentleman you mention appearing in the 1911 census is the one being searched for ?

    Thank you in advance and I hope you're doing well, TJ !
    Thanks How. I'm not doing too bad thanks. Work has been keeping me pretty busy so haven't had much chance to get on here as much as I'd like to. I hope you're keeping well?

    Its a huge coincidence if not. The names of the people in the censuses match up nicely as do professions (Tailor, fur cutter etc).

    The 1911 census which has Israel at 26 Princes Square Cable Street.

    Israel Schwartz, head 49, married 28 years, 11 children born, 6 living 5 dead, tailor, worker, born Poland and Jewish
    Eva Schwartz, Wife 48, married, born Poland and Jewish
    Etta Schwartz, daughter, 25, single, dressmaker, worker, born Poland, Jewish.
    Lionel Schwartz, son, 21, single, fur cutter, worker, born St George's Middlesex London and Jewish.
    Daniel Schwartz, son, 17, single, watchmaker, worker, born St George's, Middlesex London an Jewish.
    Judah Schwartz, son, 13, single, born St George's, Middlesex London.
    Abie Schwartz, son, 11, born St George's Middlesex London.
    Monte Schwartz, son, 9, born St George's Middlesex London.

    It's signed by Israel Schwartz and address underneath with 9 rooms written. The 9 is crossed out in red pen and 4 written beside it.

    Tracy

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  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Hi Anna


    I make them :


    1891 - 22 Samuel St
    1901 - 21 Jubilee St
    1911 - 26 Princes Sq

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Yes, an impressively quick response, John.

    (What do you do for an encore?)

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  • Anna Morris
    replied
    Great pictures, John. Thank you so much for taking and posting them.

    I also found the 1911 census for Eva and Israel Schwartz and family. I never could find Israel Schwartz before but he came up with Eva. I clipped it and would be happy to post it but a lot of times when I find something like this, others have previously found it and posted it. To post or not to post.......????

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Thanks John. Very nice pictures.

    Leave a comment:


  • John Bennett
    replied
    Nice work. This kind of thing has a habit of rekindling my interest, especially when I live 20 mins from Edmonton Jewish Cemetery. They have a name-searchable website that will give you the actual location of any given grave on a map of the cemetery. So I popped down there this afternoon. Hope this images are OK; as you can see many of the names mentioned in the posts above are present.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Ah, it seems the Street changed from Princes to Swedenborg before the Square - Square, 1938, Street before 1913. So that's that mystery solved.

    (Apologies for being over-topographical on such an interesting thread.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
    Looks very clean, and not too bomb damaged.
    Yes, it does. The Alley's been flattened, though, you can see through to Cable Street.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Looks very clean, and not too bomb damaged.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    A post-war photo of Swedenborg (formerly Princes) Square. I think no. 26 is the house where the pram is (or the next one up).

    The gap at the top of the square, to the right of the house facing, is the entrance to Shovel Alley. The bollard in the foreground marks the corner of Swedenborg Square, and the start of Swedenborg Street which ran down from there to the (Ratcliff) Highway.

    Click image for larger version

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  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
    Thanks Gary.


    Ah, Shovel Alley!
    Nan used to char for the local Jews - a proper little shabbas goy. She always had a box of Rakusen's matzos in her cupboard.

    I wonder if she ever 'did' for the Schwartzes?

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Thanks Gary.


    Ah, Shovel Alley!

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
    Apparently Princes Sq was renamed Swedenborg Sq.
    It was indeed. Shovel Alley was at one end of it (6 doors away from the Schwartzes). I'm not sure when the name of the Square and the street leading from it to the Highway were changed, but my mum was born in Swedenborg Street in 1926, so it seems the old name may have persisted in some quarters after the change had taken place.

    Monte seems to have been registered to vote at the address in the 20s/30s.

    Leave a comment:

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