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  • #76
    Debs/Robert...
    Lewis's police statement (9th Nov.) to Abberline was not signed.
    Regards, Jon S.
    "
    The theory that the murderer is a lunatic is dispelled by the opinion given to the police by an expert in the treatment of lunacy patients......."If he's insane
    " observed the medical authority, "he's a good deal sharper than those who are not".
    Reynolds Newspaper, 4 Nov. 1888.

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    • #77
      Thanks Jon.

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      • #78
        Thanks Jon

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        • #79
          It's probably as well to mention that none of the police statements were signed.
          Regards, Jon S.
          "
          The theory that the murderer is a lunatic is dispelled by the opinion given to the police by an expert in the treatment of lunacy patients......."If he's insane
          " observed the medical authority, "he's a good deal sharper than those who are not".
          Reynolds Newspaper, 4 Nov. 1888.

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          • #80
            Apart from Hutchinson's?

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            • #81
              Yes Robert, none of them taken by Abberline in Millers Court on 9th Nov. were signed. Unless the copies I have are just too faint to see any signatures. Though the statements are clear enough.
              There has been some debate why the Kelly inquest records were also not signed, though not a concern for this thread.
              Regards, Jon S.
              "
              The theory that the murderer is a lunatic is dispelled by the opinion given to the police by an expert in the treatment of lunacy patients......."If he's insane
              " observed the medical authority, "he's a good deal sharper than those who are not".
              Reynolds Newspaper, 4 Nov. 1888.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                Thomas Pike may not have been Sarah's real father. I think she was born in the Whitechapel infirmary and registered as Sarah Newman on 16th Sept 1855 and baptised a day later in Whitehapel St Marys where her mother's name is given as Jane Newman.
                The GRO has no mother's maiden name given which usually means there is no father's name in the entry. I will order the certificate.

                Jane Sarah Newman went on to marry Thomas Joseph Pike in 1860.

                Jane died in Whitechapel in 1885. This coincides with Thomas being described as a widower in 1885 in the Whitechapel Infirmary.
                Typically, I found the workhouse record showing the birth of Sarah Newman, daughter of Jane, minutes after ordering the birth certificate which I got today and says exactly the same and nothing more.

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                • #83
                  In 1852, Sarah's mother, Jane Newman, and grandfather, Benjamin Newman, appeared at the Old Bailey in a case about the theft of a roll of doeskin. Sarah was not yet born. She was born as Sarah Newman in the Whitechapel Infirmary in 1855 and was illegitimate.

                  Jane and her father were living in a court of two roomed houses off Thrawl Street at that time called Black Horse Court, which sounds very similar to the set up in Miller's Court. Jane stated in her evidence at the time that she 'had no mother'

                  Also living with them was an abandoned young girl who helped Benjamin out with his tailoring. Disturbingly, Benjamin had been charged with the rape of a four year old girl when he was 18 in 1828. He was found not guilty but reading between the lines of the newspaper reports, the not guilty verdict may have been because the attempt at rape was unsuccessful.

                  Old Bailey 1852

                  Benjamin died in Whitechapel Infirmary in 1857. I haven't been able to find anything about his birth in India in 1809. There was an interesting 'Who Do You Think You Are' about Olivia Coleman on recently that covered the subject of births in India and mentioned some interesting information about mixed race Anglo Indian births, which made me wonder about Benjamin.

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                  • #84
                    Thanks Debs....xxx

                    Martin claimed he held on to and was running along with Newman for 200 to 300 yards !
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                    • #85
                      Very interesting, Debs.

                      I caught the Olivia Coleman WDYTYA. It was one of the good ones, I thought. From where we now live we can see the cliffs of 'Broadchurch'.

                      Where was Black Horse Court in relation to Upper Keate Street, do you know? I'm without most of my London maps here in Dorset.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                        Where was Black Horse Court in relation to Upper Keate Street, do you know? I'm without most of my London maps here in Dorset.

                        I haven't got a clue, Gary.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                          Where was Black Horse Court in relation to Upper Keate Street, do you know?
                          Didn't Upper Keate Street become the western part of Thrawl Street?
                          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                          "Suche Nullen"
                          (F. Nietzsche)

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                          • #88
                            There's a Black Horse Court in the 1861. The enumerator seems to have gone from George St to Black Horse Ct and then Flower and Dean St.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                              Didn't Upper Keate Street become the western part of Thrawl Street?
                              Yes, I believe it did, Gareth. Quite notorious at the time. One magistrate claimed he heard mention of it on an almost hourly basis.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                                There's a Black Horse Court in the 1861. The enumerator seems to have gone from George St to Black Horse Ct and then Flower and Dean St.
                                Thanks, Rob.

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