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Matthew Packer : Greengrocer & Witness

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  • Matthew Packer : Greengrocer & Witness

    Thread for discussion and posts related to Berner Street's most well publicized witness.
    Despite Johnny Depp/Inspector Abberline famously claiming that no one in the East End could afford grapes....Matt was your man on Berner Street for vitis vinifera.
    To Join JTR Forums :
    Contact Howard@jtrforums.com

  • #2
    I'm seeing Matthew Packer as the Kato Kaelin of Ripperology. ;-)
    Best regards,
    Maria

    Comment


    • #3
      Come home to roost.

      Hello Howard. Thanks for starting this thread.

      "Despite Johnny Depp/Inspector Abberline famously claiming that no one in the East End could afford grapes....Matt was your man on Berner Street for vitis vinifera."

      I have asked myself PRECISELY this question.

      Here's another. IF Liz had grapes in her hand when found dead, and IF there were only grape stalks found, where did the grapes go? (Wrong answer: birds ate them. Why? They were roosting.)

      Cheers.
      LC

      Comment


      • #4
        OMG, no. Please guys, don't start again about the grapes having been genuine.

        This is also Wickerman's fetish.
        Best regards,
        Maria

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Maria. I think Lynn was making a joke. Remember that he's a college professor, so only 3% of his jokes will be funny.

          Yours truly,

          Tom Wescott

          Comment


          • #6
            Tom, not sure about Lynn's stand on the grapes. (This sentence kinda reminds me of the well-known I love Lucy episode where she dances on grapes.)

            But careful that Wick doesn't get wind of this thread, then we're up for another one of those long circular Stride threads.
            Best regards,
            Maria

            Comment


            • #7
              "Where have all the grapes gone, long time passing?"

              Hello Maria, Tom. Thanks.

              The doctor found no trace of grape skin or pips in the stomach.

              I am merely asking that, IF she had grapes in her hand, then why did Harstein not claim to see grapes? Why only the stalk? Where did the grapes go?

              Cheers.
              LC

              Comment


              • #8
                I thought of that the moment I saw the thread title. But I'm cool as long as the rest of the free world understands that it's an established fact that Packer was lying. I'd rather get Wick talking again about the Mitre Square witnesses, which is a subject where he's had some pretty valuable feedback in the past. Although lately it seems as though he's auditioning for the Cartel or something.

                Yours truly,

                Tom Wescott

                Comment


                • #9
                  Lynn, your questions are slightly reductionist. ;-)

                  Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
                  I'd rather get Wick talking again about the Mitre Square witnesses, which is a subject where he's had some pretty valuable feedback in the past.
                  Yeah, I asked him about that last night, but he didn't visit the thread in question. Would PM him but got stuff to do.

                  Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
                  Although lately it seems as though he's auditioning for the Cartel or something.
                  Did he get anti-suspect, or waxing philosophically about meta-Ripperology?

                  Expecting Wick to turn up any minute and post "Standing right here, don't mind me." Lol.

                  PS.: Wick has a fetish about the grapes, whereas Lynn has one about the cachous. :-)
                  Best regards,
                  Maria

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lynn Cates View Post
                    Hello Maria, Tom. Thanks.

                    The doctor found no trace of grape skin or pips in the stomach.

                    I am merely asking that, IF she had grapes in her hand, then why did Harstein not claim to see grapes? Why only the stalk? Where did the grapes go?

                    Cheers.
                    LC
                    And where did the fruit stains on her handkerchief come from?

                    We've got the stains, we've got the stalks, but we don't got no grapes...

                    Damn, someone ate the evidence...

                    The serious aspect to Packer's story is whether the man he claims to have seen opposite the gateway at 12:30, standing with Stride, was the same man seen by PC Smith, also at 12:30, at the same location.

                    .
                    Regards, Jon S.
                    "
                    The theory that the murderer is a lunatic is dispelled by the opinion given to the police by an expert in the treatment of lunacy patients......."If he's insane
                    " observed the medical authority, "he's a good deal sharper than those who are not".
                    Reynolds Newspaper, 4 Nov. 1888.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
                      I thought of that the moment I saw the thread title. But I'm cool as long as the rest of the free world understands that it's an established fact that Packer was lying.
                      We must be careful with these claims of an established fact, precious little can be factually established.
                      Packer changed his story from first claiming to have seen no-one suspicious to then seeing a flurry of activity in the form of Stride and her companion.

                      Packer was an unreliable witness, whether he was lying or just initially reluctant to get involved, will never be known.
                      Though I would hope no-one would form a theory based on Packer's involvement.

                      I'd rather get Wick talking again about the Mitre Square witnesses, which is a subject where he's had some pretty valuable feedback in the past.
                      I can't seem to remember which discussion you are talking about.

                      Although lately it seems as though he's auditioning for the Cartel or something.
                      Explain?
                      Regards, Jon S.
                      "
                      The theory that the murderer is a lunatic is dispelled by the opinion given to the police by an expert in the treatment of lunacy patients......."If he's insane
                      " observed the medical authority, "he's a good deal sharper than those who are not".
                      Reynolds Newspaper, 4 Nov. 1888.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Wick,

                        The stains came from fruit, just not from grapes eaten the night of her death. And there was no grape stalk there after her murder. It didn't appear until Le Grand placed it there days later. But you already know all this.

                        Yours truly,

                        Tom Wescott

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Wick,

                          Quite some time back you were posting about Lawende's man and offering what I felt was pretty valuable insights. You were also providing different descriptions attributed to Lawende (or Harris), which I felt was rather eye opening since authors seem to be very selective about what they'll present. I mentioned all this on another thread and Maria likewise became intrigued. Now I don't remember where all this was posted, but we enjoyed an exchange on the matter. I MAY have saved your posts in one of my files, but haven't had the chance or time to go and look. I believe this exchange occurred on the Casebook.

                          Yours truly,

                          Tom Wescott

                          P.S. I was just kidding about the Cartel audition, although you seem to be more pro-police than you used to be. Maybe it's just me.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Wicker Man
                            The serious aspect to Packer's story is whether the man he claims to have seen opposite the gateway at 12:30, standing with Stride, was the same man seen by PC Smith, also at 12:30, at the same location.
                            You mean in the alternate universes which Packer and Smith inhabited, whereby in one the man was holding a package and talking to a woman with clear skies overhead, and in the other the man was not holding a package, the woman was eating grapes, and the skies were pouring on them?

                            Yours truly,

                            Tom Wescott

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              training

                              Hello Maria. Thanks.

                              Reductionist? Part of my training.

                              Cheers.
                              LC

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