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  • #61
    Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post

    Eliza also gives a middle initial of G on the 1900 census.
    I did notice a tree had her with G, the same has a daughter of Eliza and Edwin, Daisy G. Bromfield.

    With nothing to back it up except her father's middlename, I would assume Eliza's G stood for Georgina.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Kattrup View Post

      Well, the record I noticed had the date New York 22nd July 1900, but I'll have to go back and check. If I can find it. perhaps that was the date of the census rather than of the marriage.

      Have to say also that my general impression of the family seems rather more middle-class than one would expect for a young woman living presumably alone at Miller's Court and hobnobbing with MJK and the like. Don't know why really - just a vague impression of familial decency or somesuch
      The census was 1900, the census asked for number of years marriage and theirs had 12 listed for both of them.
      The marriage between Eliza Holbrook and Edwin Bromfield is listed in the New York, New York City Marriage Records, 1829-1938 as 22 July 1900 New York City
      Their first daughter Daisy/ie was born c 1892 so maybe the marriage was backdated for the census

      Daisie's middle name was Gertrude.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post

        The census was 1900, the census asked for number of years marriage and theirs had 12 listed for both of them.
        The marriage between Eliza Holbrook and Edwin Bromfield is listed in the New York, New York City Marriage Records, 1829-1938 as 22 July 1900 New York City
        Their first daughter Daisy/ie was born c 1892 so maybe the marriage was backdated for the census

        Daisie's middle name was Gertrude.
        Very interesting, thank you.

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        • #64
          I have found a totally different (to any of the above mentioned on this thread) Elizabeth Holbrook who according to records had Dorset Street, Commercial Road listed as one of her previous addresses.
          Unfortunately, she was much older than 20 and lived there before July 1888 ( but I suppose she could have returned to an address she knew after that date as she says she had no settled address)
          I wonder how reliable the age given for Lizzie Albrook is?

          Click image for larger version  Name:	dorset street.jpg Views:	0 Size:	35.6 KB ID:	596909

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
            I have found a totally different (to any of the above mentioned on this thread) Elizabeth Holbrook who according to records had Dorset Street, Commercial Road listed as one of her previous addresses.
            Unfortunately, she was much older than 20 and lived there before July 1888 ( but I suppose she could have returned to an address she knew after that date as she says she had no settled address)
            I wonder how reliable the age given for Lizzie Albrook is?
            Interesting. I would imagine her reported age to be not very reliable, but unlikely to be 20 years out. A reporter, after all, met her and would have gauged her apparent age - while a 25-year old could pass for 20, a 35-year old probably could not.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Kattrup View Post

              Interesting. I would imagine her reported age to be not very reliable, but unlikely to be 20 years out. A reporter, after all, met her and would have gauged her apparent age - while a 25-year old could pass for 20, a 35-year old probably could not.
              Unless it was just a bit of journalistic moralizing, Mary's warning "don't turn out as I have done," or some such phrase, sounds like advice to a younger woman.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Kattrup View Post

                Interesting. I would imagine her reported age to be not very reliable, but unlikely to be 20 years out. A reporter, after all, met her and would have gauged her apparent age - while a 25-year old could pass for 20, a 35-year old probably could not.
                I wonder if a 13 year old could?

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post

                  I wonder if a 13 year old could?
                  Nothing's impossible, but unless there's some particular reason to consider it, I'd have to say no. Physically difficult, perhaps even more so back then, but also societal markers of dress and attitude (arrogance/deference, voice intonation etc) were more pronounced, I believe. And then one has to consider the question of why would a 13-year old pass herself off as 20, and how would her surroundings allow it? So on the face of it, I wouldn't think it possible.

                  But it all depends. If you've found a Lizzie Albrook residing at Miller's Court in 1888, I think we'd be able to accept it, even she was only 13.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Kattrup View Post

                    Nothing's impossible, but unless there's some particular reason to consider it, I'd have to say no. Physically difficult, perhaps even more so back then, but also societal markers of dress and attitude (arrogance/deference, voice intonation etc) were more pronounced, I believe. And then one has to consider the question of why would a 13-year old pass herself off as 20, and how would her surroundings allow it? So on the face of it, I wouldn't think it possible.

                    But it all depends. If you've found a Lizzie Albrook residing at Miller's Court in 1888, I think we'd be able to accept it, even she was only 13.
                    Yes, you're probably correct.

                    I'm still enthused at finding one who had lived temporarily at Dorset Street.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                      I'm still enthused at finding one who had lived temporarily at Dorset Street.
                      Of course - it seems a potentially important find and I look forward to hearing more

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