Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Lizzie Allbrook

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Lizzie Allbrook

    Hunting for Lizzie is another hobby of mine though I don't pursue it as much as trying to find MJK. I also have a prejudice about the Lizzie Allbrook information and it is strengthened by the fact that Lizzie has never been identified so far as I know. Only a couple contemporary sources carried Lizzie's information about MJK and what she said contradicted Maria Harvey's sworn testimony. In fact I find Maria Harvey to be more believable. I had never heard of Lizzie till I got internet several years ago and was surprised that her interview was taken as absolute truth by most. Finally, her whole tale impresses me as a moral interjection. MJK--and the other victims--had gotten a great deal of sympathy, especially MJK. I have wondered if Lizzie was an invention to deliver the moral that Mary was very sorry for her life of immorality, wished she could go home to her family and if a girl stays off the streets she won't go wrong. Like an Alexandre Dumas fils novel, the woman has to pay and be sorry for her downfall because moral society demands it.

    In looking for Allbrook, one search engine also suggested Al(l)cock, Alcott and a few other names. There are a lot of these people with similar names and plenty of Elizabeths, Elizas and Louisas but no usable Lizzie.

    If we look at the records of Millers Court residents ( forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5320&page7 ) we find a John Alcock at 7 Millers Court according to the electoral register of 1888 & 1889. Otherwise in 1888, No. 7 Millers Court is tenanted by "John Clark?". (I don't find Clark to be that far off from Alcock. Maybe it is, but it seems reasonable to me.)

    At Number 8 Millers Court is an "Elizabeth Bushman?". (She and John Clark have ? after their names so maybe the original records are hard to read?)

    So I was wondering...pondering as usual...if Elizabeth Bushman could have been a common law wife of John Alcock. (With my luck, numbers 7 and 8 Millers Court might be widely separated by the court but hopefully they are next to each other.) If so she may have called herself Lizzie Alcock. (Lizzie Allbrook has always seemed to be young, virginal and pure but is there any reason she could not have had a life similar to so many others--living with a man, taking his name, etc.?)

    I searched for Elizabeth (and Eliza and Louisa) Bushmans and they are blessedly hard to find in the UK. Alternative spellings are rare. None of them fit Lizzie Allbrook's reported age of 19 or 20 years old. Elizabeth Martha Bushman was born in Clerkenwell, December 1858 according to the LDS site. I was unable to scrape up anything from UK BMD or census. (An Elizabeth Busman was born in 1865 but she died in 1865.) Elizabeth Martha would have been 29 or 30 in November 1888.

    It is easy to put together John Alcocks and wives named Elizabeth, none with the surname Bushman. I can find no further records for Elizabeth Martha but my resources are limited.

    I am not claiming to have found anything but do think this is interesting, for what it's worth.
    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

  • #2
    Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
    Hunting for Lizzie is another hobby of mine though I don't pursue it as much as trying to find MJK. I also have a prejudice about the Lizzie Allbrook information and it is strengthened by the fact that Lizzie has never been identified so far as I know. Only a couple contemporary sources carried Lizzie's information about MJK and what she said contradicted Maria Harvey's sworn testimony. In fact I find Maria Harvey to be more believable. I had never heard of Lizzie till I got internet several years ago and was surprised that her interview was taken as absolute truth by most. Finally, her whole tale impresses me as a moral interjection. MJK--and the other victims--had gotten a great deal of sympathy, especially MJK. I have wondered if Lizzie was an invention to deliver the moral that Mary was very sorry for her life of immorality, wished she could go home to her family and if a girl stays off the streets she won't go wrong. Like an Alexandre Dumas fils novel, the woman has to pay and be sorry for her downfall because moral society demands it.

    In looking for Allbrook, one search engine also suggested Al(l)cock, Alcott and a few other names. There are a lot of these people with similar names and plenty of Elizabeths, Elizas and Louisas but no usable Lizzie.

    If we look at the records of Millers Court residents ( forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5320&page7 ) we find a John Alcock at 7 Millers Court according to the electoral register of 1888 & 1889. Otherwise in 1888, No. 7 Millers Court is tenanted by "John Clark?". (I don't find Clark to be that far off from Alcock. Maybe it is, but it seems reasonable to me.)

    At Number 8 Millers Court is an "Elizabeth Bushman?". (She and John Clark have ? after their names so maybe the original records are hard to read?)

    So I was wondering...pondering as usual...if Elizabeth Bushman could have been a common law wife of John Alcock. (With my luck, numbers 7 and 8 Millers Court might be widely separated by the court but hopefully they are next to each other.) If so she may have called herself Lizzie Alcock. (Lizzie Allbrook has always seemed to be young, virginal and pure but is there any reason she could not have had a life similar to so many others--living with a man, taking his name, etc.?)

    I searched for Elizabeth (and Eliza and Louisa) Bushmans and they are blessedly hard to find in the UK. Alternative spellings are rare. None of them fit Lizzie Allbrook's reported age of 19 or 20 years old. Elizabeth Martha Bushman was born in Clerkenwell, December 1858 according to the LDS site. I was unable to scrape up anything from UK BMD or census. (An Elizabeth Busman was born in 1865 but she died in 1865.) Elizabeth Martha would have been 29 or 30 in November 1888.

    It is easy to put together John Alcocks and wives named Elizabeth, none with the surname Bushman. I can find no further records for Elizabeth Martha but my resources are limited.

    I am not claiming to have found anything but do think this is interesting, for what it's worth.
    Very interesting, Anna.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Gary! That means an awful lot because you are a great researcher!

      I was just thinking also that a young Lizzie Alcock could have been John's daughter and staying with him. We have no idea who Lizzie "Allbrook" may have been staying with and if she really was 19 or 20 and a "good" girl, Millers Court would be a pretty rough place for her to live by herself.

      It would not be hard to find Elizabeth/Eliza/Louisa Al(l)cocks as daughters of John Al(l)cocks and that becomes problematic because there ARE a bunch of them. A lot of folks with these surnames originated in areas far outside London and I cannot match any John Alcock originating outside London, subsequently residing in the East End. (My geography IS improving.)
      The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Anna,
        I think it was Trevor Bond on the Miller's Court thread who suggested a similar idea about John Alcock in Miller's Court so you aren't alone in your pondering there.
        My own pondering:There were several Allbrooks in Whitechapel and one particular family who appear in the poor law records were having children in the 1860's/70's, which would match for Lizzie's age group but there doesn't appear to have been an Elizabeth (or variations). I think I have mentioned a Louisa Allbrook in another thread about this who was from the area but working as a servant away in 1881 and 1891 so probably in 1888 too.
        There was a Louisa Holbrook whose birth was registered in Whitechapel in 1869 and I have contemplated sending for her birth certificate. Holbrook/halbrook/albrook/allbrook and the names again but ending with an 'e' seem to be regularly interchanged in the records.

        Comment


        • #5
          Debs,

          In your research did you come across Alice Eliza Hallbrook, a child born in Bethnal Green in 1868 who died in Whitechapel the following year?

          I've not traced the family, but if the name Eliza runs in it there might an Eliza Hallbrook kicking around somewhere. And you know 'ow those old cockneys 'ated pronouncing their aitches.

          Gary

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
            Debs,

            In your research did you come across Alice Eliza Hallbrook, a child born in Bethnal Green in 1868 who died in Whitechapel the following year?

            I've not traced the family, but if the name Eliza runs in it there might an Eliza Hallbrook kicking around somewhere. And you know 'ow those old cockneys 'ated pronouncing their aitches.

            Gary
            Thanks Gary, I didn't come across that family but I will keep an eye out now.
            I made a mistake in my last post; the birth certificate I was thinking of ordering was for Eliza Holbrook b 1869 Whitechapel. I had Louise on the brain from talking of Louisa Allbrook just before.

            ..maybe it will be the family you are talking about!

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Debs


              I think Eliza Holbrook's parents were Samuel and Charlotte. Samuel was an engineer. They're in the 1871 at 20 Booth St and their 1868 marriage is on Ancestry.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                Hi Debs


                I think Eliza Holbrook's parents were Samuel and Charlotte. Samuel was an engineer. They're in the 1871 at 20 Booth St and their 1868 marriage is on Ancestry.
                That's a coincidence. I was looking at a Samuel too - Hallbrook, a brewery worker, wife Ellen living in Little something-or-other street, Mile End. He was the father of Ellen Mary Annie, born Feb., 1878. Alice Eliza's address was entered as 27, Pelham Street, Mile End in the burial register.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                  Hi Anna,
                  I think it was Trevor Bond on the Miller's Court thread who suggested a similar idea about John Alcock in Miller's Court so you aren't alone in your pondering there.
                  My own pondering:There were several Allbrooks in Whitechapel and one particular family who appear in the poor law records were having children in the 1860's/70's, which would match for Lizzie's age group but there doesn't appear to have been an Elizabeth (or variations). I think I have mentioned a Louisa Allbrook in another thread about this who was from the area but working as a servant away in 1881 and 1891 so probably in 1888 too.
                  There was a Louisa Holbrook whose birth was registered in Whitechapel in 1869 and I have contemplated sending for her birth certificate. Holbrook/halbrook/albrook/allbrook and the names again but ending with an 'e' seem to be regularly interchanged in the records.
                  The Louisa you mention is covered in a different thread on Casebook. (I won't post another faulty link.) You had a thought I have had, did Joe Barnett marry Lizzie (Louisa) Allbrook? Your research showed that this Louisa could be tracked through the 1890s and she wasn't Joe's wife. I suppose this Louisa could have been the Lizzie who talked to the papers.
                  The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Is Lizzie a diminutive of Louisa? I'm sure it's been discussed to death at some point, but I've never come across it in real life.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                      Hi Debs


                      I think Eliza Holbrook's parents were Samuel and Charlotte. Samuel was an engineer. They're in the 1871 at 20 Booth St and their 1868 marriage is on Ancestry.
                      Thanks, Robert.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                        Is Lizzie a diminutive of Louisa? I'm sure it's been discussed to death at some point, but I've never come across it in real life.
                        I wondered that also, Gary.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                          Is Lizzie a diminutive of Louisa? I'm sure it's been discussed to death at some point, but I've never come across it in real life.
                          Yes. We see it from time to time in Victorian materials. Louise is a name used in my family and it was not uncommon for older people, say born before the 1930s, to call someone named Louise, Lizzie. It's like someone wanting to be familiar with a person named Anna may call her Annie. It can be the same for Louise/Louisa and Lizzie.
                          The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
                            The Louisa you mention is covered in a different thread on Casebook. (I won't post another faulty link.) You had a thought I have had, did Joe Barnett marry Lizzie (Louisa) Allbrook? Your research showed that this Louisa could be tracked through the 1890s and she wasn't Joe's wife. I suppose this Louisa could have been the Lizzie who talked to the papers.
                            I had forgotten about looking at the Barnett thing, Anna. I think I tracked her as a servant outside London in 1881 and 1891, yes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                              I had forgotten about looking at the Barnett thing, Anna. I think I tracked her as a servant outside London in 1881 and 1891, yes.
                              Yes. I had long wondered about Joe and Louisa, if she was Lizzie, and thought I would dig into it. I was encouraged to see you had the same thoughts.
                              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X