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Casebook: Jack the Ripper- Online Conference 30 October 2021

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Linotte View Post

    Respectfully, I have to disagree. Mark Ripper’s presentation was actually an analysis of several quotes taken from
    different Ripper books, including Rubenhold’s. He basically unpacked the text and showed how the words worked together and discussed possible impacts. Words have meaning and we should all be cognizant of that, especially with regard to this case. As a writer myself, I believe in continuous improvement so that I can produce the best work possible. You have to be willing to meet change head-on in order to improve something. If you can’t, then your work stagnates and becomes mediocre.

    I personally do not care for Rubenhold’s work or for her all-around conduct. But we also have to remember that words have impact and that we are talking about people who died terribly. At least give them some respect.
    Again, I agree that not all the people who might describe themselves as Ripperologists have treated the victims (or indeed some of the suspects) with respect. Obviously I agree they should be treated with respect, and I hope most people here do treat them with respect. And also I don't think concern about treating people with respect should be the exclusive province of any particular political group. It should be common ground. So I don't see this at all as an issue of left against right.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Chris Phillips View Post
      So I don't see this at all as an issue of left against right.
      I don't either, Chris, but sadly there will be the odd one who will make it their business to try and turn it into one.

      It's supposed to be all about the women, who were vulnerable to a particularly nasty male predator, who was the type of bigot who thought such women's lives didn't matter. He would not have been alone.

      Now that's about as political as it needs to get for me, and it's hardly controversial.

      Love,

      Caz
      X
      I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

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      • #18
        To Chris Philips... it might not be about left-right (and indeed it shouldn't be in a civilised world) but it's an element Mark Ripper introduced into his talk.

        To Paul Begg... it might be about the alteration of the historical record, but that was only partly what Mark Ripper's talk was about - primarily he was displaying his angst at how 'Ripperology' had addressed women in response to attacks by new age feminists. This is in part over the use of language...

        so Linotte was actually agreeing with me, not disagreeing! Linotte's disagreement seems to be over the importance or significance of use of language , or the desirability of the substitution of different language - which is a different matter.

        History as a whole is being rewritten to conform with the contemporary political ascendancy, just as the news agenda, the juidiciary, social sciences and arts are being adjusted or nudged.
        Imagininjng that 'Ripperology' would be immune from this process is grossly naive. But I suppose it is only when one's niche hobby is 'amended' that some sit up and take notice - with a sharp jolt.

        And if you think Rubenhold is the end of it, appropriately, in the words of the Black Face actor Al Jolson...
        'I tell yer, you ain't heard nothin' yet"

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        • #19
          I don't think it's particularly difficult to be historically accurate and at the same to show respect for the Ripper's victims. To a large extent the two things go together.

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          • #20
            Most standard Ripper books are reasonably historically accurate and respectful. I don't recall any off hand that were disrespectful.
            But that has not provided any immunity from attack. It actually goes beyond this.

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            • #21
              Oh jeez. I’m not agreeing with you at all.

              I really enjoyed Mark’s talk. It was about how the language surrounding a topic or people impacts how society views them. It was honestly a call for Ripperology to take a step back and really examine its treatment of the victims and other relevant topics. Rubenhold’s book is all kinds of problematic, and Rubenhold herself is trash, but the situation involving her definitely shed light on some of the elephants in the room when it comes to Ripperology. Mark was simply trying to address them.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
                Most standard Ripper books are reasonably historically accurate and respectful. I don't recall any off hand that were disrespectful.
                But that has not provided any immunity from attack. It actually goes beyond this.
                But, as you've said, we shouldn't be over-sensitive to criticism if it's unjustified.

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                • #23
                  Yes indeed.
                  But at the same time the attempt to change the narrative is relentless and societal - not just involving Ripperology.
                  The best response is to carry on regardless and not get into a blue funk.

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                  • #24
                    No Linotte, you seem to misunderstand.
                    I will put it more simply.
                    You agreed with my characterisation of what Mark Ripper's talk was about.
                    But you disagreed with my criticism of it. Which I said was a different matter.

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                    • #25
                      "It was about how the language surrounding a topic or people impacts how society views them... and Rubenhold herself is trash."

                      And there we have it.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
                        Most standard Ripper books are reasonably historically accurate and respectful. I don't recall any off hand that were disrespectful.
                        Have you read "They All Love Jack"?

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                        • #27
                          I only got about a third of the way through before I gave up... but I wouldn't describe it as a standard Ripper book!

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                          • #28
                            This one seems to have died a death...
                            Second Panel: 'Gender Politics and Ripperology; a female perspective'
                            Moderator: Ally Ryder
                            with Tiffany Durkan, Samantha Hulass,
                            Suzie Huntington, Madeline Keane and
                            Amanda Lloyd

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