Joseph Martin + Dec. 23 1933

[Chris G.]

Hi Robert

Good news about the proposed second edition of your book, in full color hopefully. Yes I certainly enjoyed meeting you in Brighton. I will not be in Wolverhampton since I am going over for the Maybrick event in Liverpool (my home city, as I believe you know) but I should be in Baltimore. I do wish you luck with your neck surgery if you have it. Also many thanks for your kind words about my poetry.

Another reason I am going to Liverpool in May is that a number of my poems are included in a new Liverpool anthology, Living on Hope Street, edited by Liverpool performance poet Jim Bennett, who has just won the European poetry slam title -- I don't know whether that means he beat out the Croatian slam poet or not (if there is one!) -- and I will be in the 'Pool for a couple of poetry readings connected to the launch of the anthology.

Chris

[Howard Brown]

Dear Robert:

I just now saw that you appeared on the thread. Glad to hear from you !

Looking forward to meeting you also, How. If you'll be back to Baltimore in 2008.

You know it buddy....We'll do it up righteously.

I'm sorry to hear about your neck. I have perpetual pain in my shoulder,but that ain't the neck. Good luck should you get surgery and please keep us all posted. And of course,thanks for the updates and additional information you shared here with us.

Your pal

How

[Debra Arif]

I came across this picture earlier today and wondered if some divisions of the Met. Police did have official 'police photographers' ?

The picture is of a person unkown, dated January 1889 and the photographers name is given as F. [Fred] Wade, police photographer, of Egmont Lodge, Jasmine Grove, Anerley, which is South London I think from what Rob Clack has told me.

The picture is from a 1902 photographic magazine which describes Wade as holding an official position as police photographer in the Metropolitan District [in 1902] Was he also an official police photographer for South London in Jan 1889?





The Photogram, Vol. 9 1902

[Howard Brown]

No idea as to providing an answer to your question, Debs...but thanks very much for sharing that.
First I've heard of his name.

XX...X
How

[Debra Arif]

Cheers How, I only found it because of a conversation with Rob over the photographs that might be in files somewhere of the 'unknown dead' and that conversation stemmed from Dave James latest thread on Druitt and Thames suicides! xx

[Monty]

Hi Debs,

Not really looked into the Met Police Photographers however the City had two who took group photos and I suspect the more 'Grimer' ones.

The 1887 Snow Hill shot, which includes Hutt and Harvey (Im at work and do not have the image) was taken by W G Parker. His details are as follows -

William Gee Parker
Born 1835. Died 1903.

Biography
Parker, William Gee

Born in St Pancras 1835.

Christened March 20 1836 in St Pancras.

Md Margaretta Baker (b Exeter 1841) June 13 1857 in St Pancras.
3 sons & 1 daughter.

STUDIOS: 1. 100 Fleet Street, City of London 1866 - 1867. Successors to John Smith Lonsdale.
2. 45 High Holborn, Holborn 1867 - 1875.
3. 40 High Holborn, Holborn 1873 - 1889.
4. 17 Warwick Court, High Holborn, Holborn 1873 - 1889. Succeeded by Edwin Frewing & Co. Back entrance to Studio 3. Bill of sale to William Furber February 17 1881 £16/15/-. County court judgement July 29 18131 £11/4/3.
5. 288 High Holborn, Holborn 1890 - 1935. Managed by William Bevois Parker 1903 - 1935.
6. 100 Southampton Row, Holborn June 1901 - 1905.
1871: photographer living at 45 High Holborn, Holborn, employing 5 men & 1 boy.
1881: photographer living at The Cottage, Ballards Lane, Finchley.
1891: photographer living at 226 Park Road, Hornsey.
1901: photographer living at 21 Rosebery Gardens, Hornsey. Widower.

Limited company 1891 - William Gee Parker, William Bevois Parker & Duncan F. Christy.

Bill of sale to Union Deposit Bank February 10 1882 £160, Charles Groom October 22 1885 £85.

County court judgement March 7 1882 £10/5/-, August 3 1883 £11/4/4, May 10 1889 £11/16/-,November 11 1891 £10/15/3, May 10 1892 £22/14/3, July 25 1892 £22/17/4.

Bankrupt December 3 1889 (London Gazette 1889 p 7383); 1st meeting January 29 1890; discharged June 6 1891; receiving order January 24 1894; adjudication February 8 1894; application for discharge May 22 1896 (granted).

Sued for tinting 2 photos, by Edward Bowstead, artist March 1898.
Action against W F Stanley & Co mathematical instrument makers, for obstruction of light, by rebuilding old premises in February 1901. Evidence from Arthur Weston & Elliott & Fry, amongst others. Stanley ordered to pay costs & lower height of their building. (Times February 10 1902 Optician & Photographic Trades Review February 14 1902 pp 613 - 614; Photographic Chronicle February 20 1902 p 122).

Offices at 100 Russell Square Mansions, St Pancras were damaged in a zeppelin raid September 24 1917.

Died in Kingston on Thames 1903.

The Moor Lane Photos (c1899) we included in our article were taken by Mansion House Photographic Company of 16 & 17 Poultry. This is an interesting location as Poultry is just around the corner from the Citys HQ of Old Jewry. However Ive yet to do further reseach on these photographers.

It looks as if each station had its own preferred photographers. I must stress that Im talking about group photos here.

Sorry that it doesnt really answer your question, however it may help a little.

Monty

[Debra Arif]

test
Just looking for Monty's recent post.

[RJM]

Thanks for posting that, Debs (and to Neil for more City info - keep me in the loop). Could you possibly email me a copy of the pic. Thanks.

There is no question by 1902 Wade was an official photographer for the Metropolitan Police. In 1889, I'm almost certain he would have been unofficial as no physical photographic department existed yet. The Met still employed trusted photographers to shoot for them. I suspect, that like Joseph Martin, Wade's skills were used often. Not only did you need a man who could get the shot but he had to have absolute discretion. The prints made from the negatives were for police use, and not to be handed out to friends or sold in the high street.

These trusted nineteenth century police photographers formed the initial official department in 1901. It's possible Wade also marketed his services prior to this date so policemen, old and new, could find him when called upon.

Here's a the back of a pic from Joseph Martin after he left Cannon Street Road in 1894. Since he was at this address from 1894 to 1905, the photo could well have predated the 1901 formation of the Metropolitan Police photographic department.



Cheers,

Robert

[Debra Arif]

How, ignore my earlier pm, I've sorted out the technical problem by adjusting my user settings and I can see all the posts in the thread now.

Thanks for the City Police info, Neil. It might not have directly answered my question but I am always interested in information on the photography side of things and the police. Sorry I couldn't read it or reply this morning!

Thanks for all the information Robert, so, it's possible that Martin was also describing himself as a police photographer before the official set up of the Met photographic department, just like Wade?
Would Wade have covered a specific geographical area with his police work c 1889, like area closest to his studios perhaps?

If you pm me your email address again Robert, I'll send you a copy of the pic.

[Howard Brown]

Debs:

I'm glad you got it sorted out

Bob Mc:

Thanks for the attachment,amigo !
I'm sure you have investigated this, but does an archive of Wade's work exist ?

[Rob Clack]

I came across these reference's to a City Police Photographer from 1882.

It is in The City Police Orders book from Jan 1878 to April 1912. (images Courtesy of The City of London Police Museum)





Rob

[Howard Brown]

Dear Rob:

Thanks a million for that attachment. Very nice of you to do that for us.
That was Commissioner Henderson being mentioned. ( who also established fixed point procedure ) He was commissioner from 1869-1886 in case some may not be aware of that.

[Mike Covell]

Thanks for that Rob, it has me wondering whether a photograph of Druitt might have been taken.

[Robert Linford]

Re Fred Wade, there is a police photographer of that name living 47 Jasmine Grove, Penge in 1901. He's working on own account. The thing is that the same man appears in 1911 and he is listed as retired from City Police. So is this a case of a photographer going on to become a policeman?

He married his wife in 1896, but he had clearly been married before. Haven't traced him in 1891 yet.

[Rob Clack]

Thanks for that Rob, it has me wondering whether a photograph of Druitt might have been taken.

Somebody mentioned on Casebook a few years back (pretty certain it was Jeffrey Bloomfield) that all bodies taken from the Thames were photographed by the Thames Police.

Rob