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Could this be Abberline ?

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  • Could this be Abberline ?

    I would love to know what people think about these two photos. One is a newspaper picture and the other is a group photo of the city police with my Henry Cox at the front...I think this might be Abberline what do you think?
    Pat...
    Attached Files

  • #2
    It looks like it could be Abberline. The newspaper pictures were done with a process, something about turning an actual photo into something like an etching. My point is, the newspaper version might be from an actual photograph, not a sketch or drawing, therefore if we can accept that as accurate, I think the actual photograph is a match. Look at the left eyebrow.
    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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    • #3
      I have always thought this chap might be Abberline. Before I was always looking for a thinner man, but then I saw the sketch and he looked quite portly. I would like to know if he would have been in the group of city police. I will try to get the complete photo up and perhaps the police researcher might be able to say...
      Pat

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      • #4
        Here is the Photo. They all have medals on I think its 1887 jubilee awards, but might be wrong ? And the sketch was around time of Mary Kellys death.
        Pat
        Attached Files

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        • #5
          Pat:

          Thanks for the photo....

          I'm wondering why Abberline would be photographed with City Police.....personally, I don't think he would....nor any other Met official.

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          • #6
            JUst been reading his history...I actually don't know who Henry Cox worked for I think it was Scotland Yard.

            This is on Wikipedia: On 26 February 1887 Abberline transferred to A Division (Whitehall), and then moved to CO Division (Central Office) at Scotland Yard on 19 November 1887, being promoted to Inspector First-Class on 9 February 1888 and to Chief Inspector on 22 December 1890. Following the murder of Mary Ann Nichols on 31 August 1888, Abberline was seconded back to Whitechapel due to his extensive experience in the area. He was placed in charge of the various detectives investigating the Ripper murders. When this group photo would have been taken Abberline would have been 44/45 years old.

            I know Henry worked along side Sagar (he's sitting next to him in group photo) and he was in the detective office. I hope someone can tell me (isn't it awful I should know) ...?
            Pat....



            Pat...........

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            • #7
              In his memoirs "I caught Crippen, Walter Dew said of Abberline "He was portly and gentle speaking"
              Pat

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
                Pat:

                Thanks for the photo....

                I'm wondering why Abberline would be photographed with City Police.....personally, I don't think he would....nor any other Met official.
                Agreed, How. Also, doesn't the man in question look rather too well-off for a mere police inspector? What with the top hat, bow tie and all...
                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                "Suche Nullen"
                (F. Nietzsche)

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                • #9
                  Agreed, How. Also, doesn't the man in question look rather too well-off for a mere police inspector? What with the top hat, bow tie and all...
                  -Sam Flynn-

                  Yes, he does, Sam....

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                  • #10
                    There was a programme on the telly the other day - My Secret Family History or some such name - where a descendent of Abberline wanted confirmation of her connection to the great detective. I say descendant, it turned out Abberline was the lady’s several times great uncle.

                    It was said that when the blue plaque was put up on the house in Bournemouth where he had retired, no relatives could be traced. So they presented the lady with a replica.

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                    • #11
                      Hi Pat, all....

                      The group photo was much discussed a few years ago on both forums as you probably remember. It is the 1887 Queen Victoria Jubilee image of some of the members of the Bishopgate Station. There would be no logical reason for Abberline, a Met detective, to be in the image.

                      Likewise, Cox served in the City Police and would not have been affiliated with Scotland Yard (as far as personell crossing jurisdictions as employment.)
                      Best Wishes,
                      Cris Malone
                      ______________________________________________
                      "Objectivity comes from how the evidence is treated, not the nature of the evidence itself. Historians can be just as objective as any scientist."

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                        Agreed, How. Also, doesn't the man in question look rather too well-off for a mere police inspector? What with the top hat, bow tie and all...
                        The City Police detectives were evidently a smart lot :
                        https://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=26083

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                        • #13
                          They seemed to have moved about a bit....Dont know how reliable Wikipedia is?

                          8 April 1878 Abberline was appointed Local Inspector in charge of H Division's CID.
                          26 February 1887 Abberline transferred to A Division (Whitehall)
                          Moved to CO Division (Central Office) at Scotland Yard 19 November 1887, Promoted to Inspector First-Class on 9 February 1888
                          To Chief Inspector 22 December 1890.

                          Chief Inspector Abberline retired from the police on 8 February 1892

                          Pat

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                          • #14
                            Finding a photograph of Abberline has always been a challenge. A front-face illustration of the man was printed in Toby magazine in 1889, and that may have been the best depiction of him.

                            From what I understand, Neil Storey's A Grim Almanac of Jack the Ripper's London 1870-1900 contained a photo on page 24 that was captioned:

                            Superintendent Thomas Arnold with some officers and men of H Division pictured at the rear of Leman Street Station, c. 1888. There were about 100 men in the photograph.

                            That same H Division photo also appeared in Issue #26 of Ripper Notes in an article entitled "Say Cheese, Mr. Abberline." One of the men in that photo was focused on and enlarged. The man was shown side by side with the illustration of Abberline from Toby magazine. The Ripper Notes article remarked:

                            The face is there, aligning itself immaculately with the famous 1889 Toby magazine front-face illustration.

                            The man in the H Division photo was standing up while slightly bracing himself by holding a cane to the ground in his left hand. The Ripper Notes article reminded its readers that Abberline was said to have a varicose vein in his left leg.

                            It has been 16 years since Issue 26 of Ripper Notes was distributed. I wonder if any progress was ever made to determine if the man in the H Division photo was actually Abberline.

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