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Jack the Ripper : The Macnaghten Memoranda

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  • #61
    Come on, AP,

    Much as I luv ya, I now realise you've slurped a flagon too much of 'Old Tennis Shoes'.

    THC's 'Sword of the Seven Stars' or whatever it's called sounds suspiciously like the premise for a cheap Hong Kong martial arts flick.

    JtR was/was imitating THC, or vice-versa?

    Allow me to mail you a bottle of Fernet-Branca. You'll feel better within hours. The Italians guarantee it.

    And please don't ever think you're stifling debate.

    That's for others to do.


    • #62
      Fernet-Branca makes me burp, but thanks Simon, I'll stick with diluted scotchland. I'll drink it in the Yard.
      I'm only repeating...
      what Race said at the time.


      • #63
        Hi Simon

        In anticipation of replies, you asked for it.

        Did you live on Fairhazel Gardens in the 70s?


        • #64
          Hi Stephen,

          I'm not sure what I asked for.

          Send me a PM.



          • #65
            No need for PMs Simon. I just thought you sounded a little 'merry' yourself.

            Fairhazel Gardens?


            • #66
              Originally posted by A.P. Wolf View Post
              'Is this sad, pretend behaviour really the hallmark of JtR?'

              Yes it is, Simon.
              You seem to forget that someone during this period was recklessly slaughtering women, cleaving them apart and throwing their bits around London, in the Thames, in Scotland Yard and many other locations around London. These crimes began before the Whitechapel Murders and continued long after.
              It is not unreasonable to suggest or suppose that the person you know as JtR was merely pretending to murder women in a similar fashion.
              Er, hem, "You seem to forget that someone during this period was recklessly slaughtering women, cleaving them apart and throwing their bits around London, in the Thames, in Scotland Yard and many other locations around London."


              I am sure most observers of the case would agree it was not one murderer as you appear to imply here, AP.

              Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
     Hear sample song at

              Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
              Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at


              • #67

                Following Robert Linford's timely cue, perhaps we ought to go back to the premise of the thread. If others want to start up a parallel thread on some of the issues or ideas that have popped up on this one, please by all means do so.

                Thanks !!!
                To Join JTR Forums :


                • #68
                  the only thing I can say to you is that all cops ain't kosher.


                  • #69
                    'The case referred to in the sensational story told in 'The Sun' in its issue of 13th inst, & following dates, is that of Thomas Cutbush...'
                    It's obvious from how Macnaghten begins his report that he is addressing the central question he has been asked:
                    'just who the hell is this chap that The Sun is blathering on about interminably as Jack the Ripper?'
                    Which appears to indicate that the asker was indeed ignorant of the identity of the Sun suspect, perhaps making it safe to assume that at a power level higher than Macnaghtens, the authorities had no idea or inkling that the Sun suspect was perhaps related to a senior police officer at Scotland Yard.
                    Now that situation is what I would happily describe as a 'hot potato', and Macnaghten would have been on very shaky ground indeed.
                    It is impossible to determine whether Macnaghten himself would have been aware of the suspect's identity prior to him asking junior officers to investigate into the suspect and situation proposed in the Sun articles, but I think it fair to suggest that the entire executive office of Scotland Yard would have been fully aware of the suspect's identity as soon as the Sun published its very first article... when not before.
                    Without implicating his own department Macnaghten had to answer a simple question that would have implicated his own department, if Thomas Hayne Cutbush was related to Charles Henry Cutbush.
                    So he said he was, but according to him that didn't matter because Thomas Cutbush was not Jack the Ripper.
                    By not having Thomas Cutbush as Jack the Ripper he was protecting the nasty core in the middle of the rotten apple.
                    Charles Henry Cutbush.


                    • #70
                      Is the draft MM [Aberconway version] dated?

                      It would be interesting to learn how soon after the Sun story first appeared that Macnaghten got to work on his memorandum/report.


                      • #71
                        Regardless of which version, Simon, Macnaghten was working within a ten day framework, and then considering that he had only a few days after the last Sun report, before which he would have, one assumes, been unaware of what the Sun had to say, then it seems obvious that he must have been prepared for the storm before it struck.


                        • #72
                          Well, it seems that news of what the Sun was going to do had got out, at least in journalistic circles, for did not the Sun say that they were bringing forward their publication date because another newspaper was going to scoop them? Unless that was just hype.


                          • #73
                            I'd forgotten that, Robert, they actually opened their office and press on a Sunday to sabotage that situation, didn't they?


                            • #74
                              Hi Robert,

                              The JtR story was hot, and for the duration of episodes 2 - 5 the Sun changed its publishing schedule from that of an evening paper to a morning paper. No mean feat.

                              If I had been Macnaghten I would have talked directly to the Sun, as it was Scotland Yard from whom an admission or denial was expected.

                              And it seems that some sort of official denial was forthcoming—

                              Qu' Appelle Progress [Ontario, Canada] 29th March 1894—

                              "The police who have been interested in the Whitechapel murder cases are not disposed to give much credit to the Sun's story, which is generally regarded as sensational, and open to grave suspicions as to its veracity."




                              • #75
                                And that is, Simon, where disinformation comes into play, because before Macnaghten writes his report we have a perfectly researched and responsible newspaper article which voices genuine suspicions concerning a suspect... but that is rubbished by the police force who were employing his uncle in 1888 when these events actually happened.
                                Some appear to feel that because Charles Henry Cutbush was retired a few years after the events we discuss here that it has implication to the events we discuss.
                                It doesn't.
                                At the time of the Whitechapel Murders, Charles Henry Cutbush actually signed immediate documents relating to those crimes; and in 1891 he was the officer in charge of the most senior branch of the the force investigating those crimes.
                                And his immediate chief stated that Charles Henry Cutbush was the uncle of Thomas Hayne Cutbush.
                                Put this in a court of law and the result is obvious.
                                We talk of the testimony of the most senior police officer in the realm, make no mistake, if he says that Thomas and Charles are uncle and nephew then that is the law.