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PC882 Joseph PHIPPS City of London Police 1871-1897

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Cogidubnus View Post
    It has that effect...my own vision is blurred, and my hearing filled with unwanted echoes...

    Dave

    St James's Walk Clerkenwell would certainly fit AND number 26 still exists!!!

    *** 26 St James's Walk is a stones throw from where Clerkenwell Prison once stood, which was attacked by Fenians on the 13th December 1867, was Joseph living there at the time??***

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerkenwell_explosion
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    • #17
      EVENING STANDARD 14th DEC 1848


      (sorry about ragged snip - rectangular wasn't working)
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      • #18
        Which explains why, when I searched in 1851 and 1861, I couldn't find him...wonder where Joseph was though? Did that paper not carry any further hints regarding the family's whereabouts Robert? Manchester perhaps?

        Dave

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        • #19
          Hi Dave


          The few reports I have seen make no mention of the family at all.


          A few add that the doc gave orders for him not to be left alone but during the temporary absence of the nurse he cut his throat.

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          • #20
            WOW!!!! What a sad end!!! Isaac must have been in a very dark place to have done that to himself!!!

            One can only imagine what must have been going through Joseph mind when he attended at...

            20th February 1887 Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper-

            ....attempting to commit suicide on the 23rd January by cutting his throat with a razor, the evidence of Police Constable Joseph PHIPPS. It appeared that on the 23rd January last he was called to 28 Aldergate Street and that that a man had attempted.......


            One concern I do have however, is the date of this newspaper article December 14th 1848?

            You will note that Isaac is mentioned on Joseph's marriage certificate of 1868.

            Could it be that this is a different Isaac PHIPPS of the Guards (although what are the odds??)

            Could it be that Joseph put his father's name on the certificate as a mark of respect for his father? As he was only 3 at the time of his fathers death would he even remembered him?

            It might however explain why Isaac was married and living in the Tower of London, if he'd been in years by then?

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            • #21
              It was expected that the father's name should be entered, if known. The only discrepancy is that he isn't given as deceased, but such things happen.


              I've at last got hold of a tree, by searching for 'Phipp' - the name under which Isaac's death was registered. According to the tree, Joseph's mother was Charlotte Noakes who married Isaac in 1833. She remarried to William Knight just before the 1851 census. Joseph is in the 1861 census as Joseph Knight, 13. His mother is Charlotte Knight born Essex, Ongar. They lived at White Horse Yard, St Stephens, London. Four siblings for Joseph are listed.


              Joseph's birth was registered as 'Phipp,' Q2 Marylebone 47.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                It was expected that the father's name should be entered, if known. The only discrepancy is that he isn't given as deceased, but such things happen.


                I've at last got hold of a tree, by searching for 'Phipp' - the name under which Isaac's death was registered. According to the tree, Joseph's mother was Charlotte Noakes who married Isaac in 1833. She remarried to William Knight just before the 1851 census. Joseph is in the 1861 census as Joseph Knight, 13. His mother is Charlotte Knight born Essex, Ongar. They lived at White Horse Yard, St Stephens, London. Four siblings for Joseph are listed.


                Joseph's birth was registered as 'Phipp,' Q2 Marylebone 47.



                Thanks Robert that's really great and confirms without a shadow of a doubt that we have the right Isaac. Certainly a very interesting and sad story, I'm sure you'll agree.

                I would assume that Joseph was living with his mother & step father, etc at 26 St James's Walk, before he got married in 1868 and as such would have been well aware of the 1867 bomb incident.


                I wonder if the PHIPPS, KNIGHT & PHIPP situation might account for why no record of Joseph can be found at the LMA?

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                • #23
                  I don't know, Gordon, but he died as Daniel Joseph Phipps so that sort of thing doesn't help matters.


                  He knew who his dad was, but whether they told him how he died, I can't say for sure, but I reckon he knew.

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                  • #24
                    This has certainly turned into a cracking little research project. Thanks to everyone who has replied. It is greatly appreciated!!!!!

                    Now if I could just find some sort of Ripper connection.............

                    I can confirm he was stationed at Bishopsgate Police Station at the right time. So it's possible that he conducted crowd control at Mitre Square post EDDOWES murder. Or perhaps took part in some sort of follow up inquiries?

                    He would without a doubt have patrolled Mitre Square at some point during his career and perhaps even on a regular basis?

                    I would assume that he would have known WATKINS? He would have certainly known all the Sgt's and Insp's who took part in the EDDOWES incident.

                    Was he living in King's Block in 1888, did he see the graffiti that was written there...............?

                    What tales could he tell us?

                    Would be great if someone from his family came forward recalling tales he'd told that have been passed down?

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                    • #25
                      Baptism St Botolph Aldgate 1887.
                      Attached Files

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                      • #26
                        Have found a few more tantalizing pieces of information.....

                        1888: 44 Prince's Block, Petticoat Square, Portsoken Ward. [City of London. Register of Freemen being liverymen from The British Library]

                        This is curious as according to the baptism entry they were living at 5 King's Block in 1887 and then 1890: 5 King's Block, Artizans' Street. Portsoken Ward. [City of London. Electoral Register 1890 from The British Library]. So unless they moved out briefly perhaps? Prince's Block and King's Block are next to each other with Queen's Block between them.

                        There's also this 1884: 20 Block B, Peabody Buildings, Whitechapel. Registered only under the name of Joseph Phipps (as opposed to Joseph Daniel Phipps) so it is not a definite that this is the correct entry [Electoral Register, St. Mary Whitechapel]. Not entirely sure about this information as there appears to be two Joseph PHIPPS living in Whitechapel in the 1881 census, so it's possible this is one of them?
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                        • #27
                          Hi Gordon


                          The two 1881 Whitechapel Joseph Phippses were father and son, living 26 Buck's Row. Joseph snr was born c1832 and was a Railway Supt. Joseph Jr was born c 1856 and was a porter.


                          The 1884 Peabody one could well be our JP three years down the line. The Railway Supt is still in Buck's Row in 1884.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                            Hi Gordon


                            The two 1881 Whitechapel Joseph Phippses were father and son, living 26 Buck's Row. Joseph snr was born c1832 and was a Railway Supt. Joseph Jr was born c 1856 and was a porter.


                            The 1884 Peabody one could well be our JP three years down the line. The Railway Supt is still in Buck's Row in 1884.

                            That's very interesting, thanks Robert!!!

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